I’m not opposed to this in honesty, given that it’s an equivalent. Main issue is 250kg /= 250lbs, so it’s RCS value puts it closer to a GBU-56, which all SAMs can detect fairly accurately.
Well, gaijin said there working on making accurate RCS calculations for munitions in the future (probably next major update) and the current RCS ones are just either approximations or guesswork. We’ll have to see how each munition changes whenever they fully implement it
-FAB-250
-simialr to GBU-39
Or They can tune down the spaas so they cannot intercept multiple supersonic munitions in a single pass. I don’t like the fact that we are limited with certain ordinance to score hits. If you try to use anything else other than those weapons that either works by oversaturation lr pseudo-rcs you are pretty much wasting time.
Ngl we need dedicated recon aircraft for this mode which would earn from spotting ground units and sending info to rest. If this mode is going to stay forever after all testing.
Rb47, rb57, rf104, sr71 for example. And they would fulfil different duties. Like rb47 would gather intelligence on enemy radars while rf104 would use camera to spot all types of objects but at cost of having to get closer.
Yes, some of them, if not all, will be useless in arb or grb. Like f117 and bombers in general are in arb. But they be welcome in nuclear escalation.
3 Likes
Ok feedback time for top tier bracket:
REDFOR side:
Itos are extremely active for frontline SPAA while SAMPTs are effectively useless. In Su30SM2 you can avoid SAMPTs by flying at an angle at high speed or if you fly towards them as soon as you start hearing the missile sound just do a hard pull for a second and youll dodge them.
At the same time they turn off radar so effectively unless you nuke them or Grom them they will act just like annoying mosquitos. Unable to really pose significant threat but effectively immune to SEAD missiles as they shut off radar like 90% of the time.
Itos are very active, they do not mess around with VT1s, but they can be killed with Kh31s pretty easily so its fine. And SPYDERs for airfield protection are just eh, ive yet to see anyone die to SPYDER like… ever.
BLUEFOR side:
2S6s while pretty active arent that big a problem, worst thing that can happen is that they just appear near you when you dont expect it but thats more rendering issue rather than anything else so personally i dont mind 2S6s that much. S1s for Airfield is imo pretty fine coupled with HQ11, ive not had much bad to say about it, i think i died to HQ11 like once when i got too close to the enemy airfield but otherwise seems fine.
What however isnt fine is the S300s in the backline. If you dont have pocket-MKM player you can chuck at the S300s it is extremely annoying to deal with them, depending on plane sometimes bordering on impossible. HARMs simply lack the speed to get far enough to effectively shut them down and more importantly the S300s unlike SAMPTs are actually dangerous to anyone flying above like 400m altitude as they channel the knowledge of the universe to see you even when youre hugging the floor and they fly at stupidly high speed.
This is where the main issue comes to bite BLUEFOR in the ass, in order to make HARMs actually perform well you need to fire them off from high altitude, and S300s are preventing anyone from gaining altitude to do so.
What ends up happening in general is the REDFOR side can fly at high altitude because SAMPTs cant hit them while BLUEFOR has to sniff the ground until S300s are dead (atleast they dont shut their radar off, thats the only thing making this semi-playable) and then they can contest air.
Possible adjustments:
- Switch CN to BLUEFOR that way Kh31s are available on the other side and add couple nations to RU to balance it out, this should also help with the abysmal loading times
- Change SAMPTs to TYPE 03s as they have better long range performance which should somewhat pose a threat for RU side, as a result if the TYPE03 is actually going to perform way too good at shutting air (similarly to S300s) then they should just not shut down their radar when ARMs are heading towards them.
- Alternatively switch out S300s for something else, like BUKs from lower era or other systems that do not perform so oppressively to shut down the entire blue side while the reds can fly high without a care in the world.
- increase render distance/visibility for ground units, 2S6s nor ITOs should just appear out of nowhere within 6km and chuck a missile at you with perfect guidance.
- Set up more air defense ships near the Kuznetsov/Forrestal as i can fire 12x Kh31ADs at each one and kill both carriers without a single bother from 70km range.
- Lower the airfield crewlock time by some margin. Right now if youre doing SEAD or CAS missions at one side of the map and die to an Orbital R77-1 or S300 with precognition you either have to respawn further back or at a different spot taking extra time to get back to the place you already started working on.
- Either lower the repair costs or increase the SL rewards, it makes no sense to work your ass off to get the win and you get like less than 100k SL for 40-50min match when i can get multiple times that amount via GRB in the span of 20-30 minutes.
- Increase the Sight Stabilization range from 30km to 50km or more. Often times i can see the S300/SAMPT nests with my eyes but cant set up a release for my GNSS bombs without a lot of jank (squad ping → aim point via map → drop salvo) when outside of 30km despite the fact that the bombs/missiles have way longer reach.
Overall id say im way more happy with the changes this time, especially the 1.5x missile range for radar activation making SEAD be actually viable, but it still has some kinks to fix up. Even if most of the things ive suggested wont get added at the very least we either need a better HARM missile or nerf to the S300 lock on range.
It would also be nice if we got from gaijin some form of general explanation to the exact mechanics surrounding EWRs and other things including precise numbers.
4 Likes
Anyone else also have REDFOR lose by 3000-4000 victory points like every game lol? It’s like Russians still don’t get that this isn’t air rb. They don’t play the objectives and they don’t play the nuke game. Every game I nuke at least 2 airfields and often one of my teammates also nukes at least one but Russians just don’t even take out long range SAMs and are just useless
2 Likes
Last time I only noticed that huge ah 17 min waiting timer before going to bed. Jokes aside I mostly had good battles where both sides were close. 460 vs 400 tickets, I still remember that.
Issue with using IR guided bombs/ordnance is how easy they can be “decoyed” by S300 launching missiles.
Otherwise it is a way of bypassing 30km sight stabilization range limitation.
most of my matches against RU tend to be either 1k to 400 point difference. Last match ive played was a win for NATO with 20 tickets remaining, so pretty close.
S300s tend to generate a lot of value for RU side unless theyve been dealt with within the first few minutes of the match. But overall the matches, atleast at 14.3-14.7 tend to not be complete rolls.
1 Like
GBU-39s are the way to go on that front. Even if you can’t accurately set the marker up via minimap, you can set one target point for the battery’s location close in, and do a pop up attack. If you do it right before entering the 30km max TGP range, so long as you remain at a 30-degree climb and don’t dawdle, you can launch enough 39s to get the targeting radars and disable the battery, while turning back down to the ground to evade fire.
Alternatively, try doing lower player counts per match. 8 minimum may be pushing it, but I’d say 12 is a good sweet spot for the map, AI capabilities, and tech options.
The issue there is the missiles the BUK-M3 get are shorter range… but they have active radar guidance with IOD and DL. If anything, they’re more of a threat than the S-300s, which are currently SACLOS + IOG.
LITENING TGP’s unclassified effective range is 27.8km before environmental factors. I think what should happen instead is you can set sight stabilization/target points from TGP to wherever you center the point, but you get a prompt about being outside laser range like with how you get warnings about bomb bay being closed, over drop speed etc.
Everything else here, I agree or only needs a minor tweak.
I either use Spices or JSOWs, HOSBOs can also work but most reliable are always Kh31PDs.
Stuff like Typhoons for example dont have access to GBU39s, or if im using Superhornet/Hornets those also dont have access to SDBs.
that could maybe help but the bigger problem is that there is simply not enough RU/CN players playing vs NATO.
as you can see.
BUK-M3 is not the BUK in the lower era that im talking about so this entire point doesnt matter. Yes, BUK-M3 is and was cancer. Im not suggesting M3, im suggesting regular SARH BUKs or other systems that are worse than S300s/lowering of S300 engagement range which is right now at 75km i think?
yea id be fine with that, just a sight stab but limited laser range as it should be. Most important thing is that you can set up aim point without doing jank or guessing.
Last I checked, the BUKs in low bracket are the M3 model. Could be wrong, but I distinctly remember checking sensor view and seeing the missile was radiating it’s own radar.
vs
If the BUKs in lower bracket were M3 they would be ARH, and so they would be way more broken than S300 due to the speed and speed retention which the BUK M3 missile does extremely well. (They were in dev server for the 13.0+ test and they were cancer to deal with)
Actually, just had another thought while putting up dishes; could introduce low power EW aircraft along the frontline that disrupt the long range SAMs and some of the BVR spam. Aside from closing in and destroying them with IR missiles/cannons, you can bypass their jamning by switching to hard lock guidance or higher update mode on TWS. You get an aircraft to spawn by clearing out a couple of frontline positions and/or bases, giving a better incentive to go after these targets.
I don’t know… i’ve NEVER played a match with that combosition anyway… Usually it’s Russia/China/France/UK/Sweden vs The others …or some kind of that kind of mix.
However the MM stucks if you let it. Cancel and requeue after 2-3 mins.
That might be the one reason. The other is…not many players might play the higher tier one.
The low tier is WAY better.
EDIT: some seconds queue , speak of the devil this one is Russia vs the others…still instant queue with blues.
After playing both red and blue at around 13.7-14.0 what I’ve found is that the majority of players don’t really have a clue what do to properly, however blue is advantaged when it comes to bringing volume/mass of munitions (that can punch through the SAM networks) on a single platform. Often in the same timeframe a single blue plane can drop more munitions->overwhelm SAMs->destroy more targets->map easier to traverse->more tickets bled which snowballs over the course of a match. On red for example, say I want to attack a depot. What I personally used (Su-34) was mixing in 1-2 Kh-31PD with 4 Kh-38MTs to guarantee sufficient saturation to get the 3 ITOs guarding the depot. The problem is now I don’t have any munitions left to hit all 3 depot buildings or to attack any other ground targets. On blue (F-15E) I would often blow up 1-3 of those mini concentrations of T-80s/BMP-3, alongside taking out the depot AA + all 3 depot buildings, or even wipe multiple depots worth of AA for teammates to hit.
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GBU-53/Spice250 bypass 30km stabilization limit, but it requires you to have steady hand. Otherwise 70-80km distance, 12-13km alt and 7 business days later radars are gone.
And you get them as early as 13.7 on F-16CM/F-16I.
I’m well aware, but that also requires you to loiter around while fiddling with perspective and scaling on the minimap and using a TGP to get what you need… or letting someone spot for you. Letting other players get telephone pole opportunities.
I’ve seen one person die to it on the killfeed, and I was so surprised by it when I saw it I actually laughed lol. I would have screenshotted it but I was a bit too busy dodging missiles to do that.
I really have to disagree with this. Thanks to the pseudo RCS mechanic, its actually super easy to deal with them in anything that has GBU-39s, GBU-53s, JSOWs, or Spice 250s. Which is basically every bluefor nation. See my video I made for someone else in here on how to deal with them if you are struggling.
I personally think the solution here is to do what was done with the russian spaa, and replace the SAMP/T with the Patriot system. This way they have the same pressure to stay at low altitude unless they perform proper SEAD/DEAD missions, without being put in the BUK M3 hell that NATO was experiencing before the BUKs were swapped for S300s. Because like the S300, the Patriot system is semi active radar guided, so it can only engage one target at a time and it needs line of sight, so all they need to do to avoid it is go low enough to break line of sight to the radar.
Yes, and when all players go out of range of a unit, it should be left with a “last known” location marking on the map instead of completely disappearing off the map.
Yes it should go down by one or maybe two minutes. Although I have found it helps if, instead of Jing out on the runway to rearm, you just wait out the rearm timer, because Jing out on the runway resets the spawn timer. That way, if you immediately get domed by an SPAA or an orbital fox 3, you can still respawn at that airfield right away.
This is a must have IMO, although I have gotten to the point that I can still reliably take out S300 sites without dying even with the limitation. At this point its just a massive annoyance.
I believe they were talking about the BUK M1 which is the frontline sam for the early era, which is also SARH