This is the worst idea since the “last stand”…
Maybe just fix APHE ? I mean you already did it… (it is just not implemented)
“Historical record” being your own, unsourced, heavily biased, opinion. Denying reality seems to be the natural response of some when reality doesn’t align with their expectations…
You’re really not the most unbiased user to go around ‘biasing’ people.
Uh. No. The actual historical record. Every war/conflict from ww2 till now.
Russian stuff gets stomped by NATO stuff.
From Mig’s and T-34’s getting dominated in Korea to Ukraine inflicting massive losses on Russia.
Ofc a lot of modern Chinese stuff hasn’t seen combat, but given their tanks all share fundamentals with Russian tanks. No compelling argument for them to be better.
Jets are a different story. Although, given the poor quality of Chinese electronics and automobiles, the poor performance of the PLA navy, and the lack of wealthy countries buying Chinese equipment, it’s hard to argue any evidence that they would be competitive.
I mean not really. (USA vs USSR)
P47s and P51s became gods at altitude which most fights were mostly at. Out performing most of the WW2 Yaks and migs.
The F-86 and Mig15 were actually pretty even however the F-86 was easier to handled giving it the edge in most fights making it slightly better. Veitnam was not the best but the F-5’s and F-8’s were a way better dogfighter than the Mig-21 while the F-4 was a poorly executed fighter.
The Mig-25 lead to couple years of air superiority for the USSR until it was completely blown out of the water by the F-15. The F-22 is way older than the Su-57 while the Su-57 still less effective in way lesser numbers.
Additionally any (give or take 5) year difference will have an American fighter better in 9/10 than a USSR one. (95 percent of the time)
But to get to the point china has more propaganda and paper magic machines than the USSR did. I wouldn’t be surprised if half of them were US copies and the other half broke within a kilometer of being deployed.
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I meant Chinese jets. They haven’t fought much.
Russian jets have been getting owned for 70 years.
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Poor copies.
And if it’s their submarines … those just sink before they even leave port.
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Well sit in enclosed space on top of highly explosive material can be hazard to the crews especially in vehicles designed to be spear head
I’m not sure why people don’t understand that.
*Export models
and what is so different about them?
…they’re inferior in every way to normal production models. Usually have worse radar, avionics, etc.
from my understanding, was ROE and no sufficient missiles (at first) that really held them back
like which ones? pretty sure the ones we stomped were mostly same as Soviet ones
I hope you don’t mind a bit of AI:
MiG-15 (1949)
• Exported to: China, North Korea, Poland, Czechoslovakia, East Germany, and others.
• Export Differences: Some export models (e.g., MiG-15bis) had downgraded radar and avionics.
2. MiG-17 (1952)
• Exported to: China (as J-5), Vietnam, Egypt, Syria, Cuba, and others.
• Export Differences: Some export versions lacked radar, had simpler avionics, or used downgraded engines.
3. MiG-19 (1955)
• Exported to: China (as J-6), North Vietnam, Pakistan, Egypt, and others.
• Export Differences: Export models often had older radar and fire-control systems.
4. MiG-21 (1959)
• Exported to: Over 60 countries, including India, Egypt, Vietnam, Poland, and Romania.
• Export Differences: Export models (such as MiG-21F-13, MiG-21PFM, and MiG-21bis) often had less advanced radar, weaker weapons systems, and reduced avionics capabilities.
5. MiG-23 (1970)
• Exported to: Iraq, Libya, Syria, India, Cuba, and others.
• Export Differences: Export models like MiG-23MS and MiG-23MF had downgraded radar (e.g., missing look-down/shoot-down capability) and reduced electronic warfare systems.
6. MiG-25 (1970)
• Exported to: Iraq, India, Libya, Algeria, and Syria.
• Export Differences: Export models (MiG-25P and MiG-25RB) lacked the most advanced radar and had reduced electronic countermeasures.
7. MiG-29 (1982)
• Exported to: India, Iraq, North Korea, Cuba, and many former Warsaw Pact states.
• Export Differences: MiG-29B (export) lacked ECM (electronic countermeasures), downgraded radar, and weaker avionics compared to Soviet models.
8. Su-7 (1958)
• Exported to: India, Egypt, Iraq, North Korea.
• Export Differences: No major differences, but later models for export had older avionics.
9. Su-17/Su-22 (1969)
• Exported to: Poland, East Germany, Iraq, Libya, Syria, Vietnam.
• Export Differences: Su-22 (export version) had downgraded avionics and weaker radar.
10. Su-27 (1985, late USSR)
• Exported to: China, Vietnam, India, and Ethiopia.
• Export Differences: The export Su-27SK had simplified avionics and less advanced weapons compatibility.
i cannot believe any of this since it lists Soviet used ones as examples of export models
such as?
Yes, the USSR did use some export models of its own aircraft, but this was not common. Here are a few notable cases:
-
MiG-21 (Certain Export Variants)
• The USSR produced many variants of the MiG-21, and in some cases, it used aircraft originally intended for export.
• Some downgraded MiG-21s (like the MiG-21F-13) were used in training units or second-line roles.
• The USSR also received some of the license-produced MiG-21s from its allies (such as Czechoslovakia and India). -
MiG-23 (Export Variants for Training and Testing)
• Some MiG-23MS (a downgraded export variant) were kept by the USSR for evaluation and training purposes. -
MiG-29 (Simpler Export Versions)
• The USSR used early production models that were similar to the downgraded export MiG-29B.
• These lacked advanced electronic warfare (EW) systems but were still used for frontline service. -
Su-22 (Export Version of Su-17)
• The USSR mainly used the Su-17, but in some cases, they operated Su-22s (export models) for evaluation and training.
• The Su-22 had a different engine to match export customer requirements, but the USSR tested it for possible compatibility.
MiG-21F-13, MiG-15Bis, MiG-21bis, MiG-25P, MiG-25RB
cool
AI too dumb to understand difference between downgraded and natural development of a vehicle? or was that you since i dont see the bold font?
F-13 is literally first mass produced MiG-21 variant