from my understanding, was ROE and no sufficient missiles (at first) that really held them back
like which ones? pretty sure the ones we stomped were mostly same as Soviet ones
I hope you don’t mind a bit of AI:
MiG-15 (1949)
• Exported to: China, North Korea, Poland, Czechoslovakia, East Germany, and others.
• Export Differences: Some export models (e.g., MiG-15bis) had downgraded radar and avionics.
2. MiG-17 (1952)
• Exported to: China (as J-5), Vietnam, Egypt, Syria, Cuba, and others.
• Export Differences: Some export versions lacked radar, had simpler avionics, or used downgraded engines.
3. MiG-19 (1955)
• Exported to: China (as J-6), North Vietnam, Pakistan, Egypt, and others.
• Export Differences: Export models often had older radar and fire-control systems.
4. MiG-21 (1959)
• Exported to: Over 60 countries, including India, Egypt, Vietnam, Poland, and Romania.
• Export Differences: Export models (such as MiG-21F-13, MiG-21PFM, and MiG-21bis) often had less advanced radar, weaker weapons systems, and reduced avionics capabilities.
5. MiG-23 (1970)
• Exported to: Iraq, Libya, Syria, India, Cuba, and others.
• Export Differences: Export models like MiG-23MS and MiG-23MF had downgraded radar (e.g., missing look-down/shoot-down capability) and reduced electronic warfare systems.
6. MiG-25 (1970)
• Exported to: Iraq, India, Libya, Algeria, and Syria.
• Export Differences: Export models (MiG-25P and MiG-25RB) lacked the most advanced radar and had reduced electronic countermeasures.
7. MiG-29 (1982)
• Exported to: India, Iraq, North Korea, Cuba, and many former Warsaw Pact states.
• Export Differences: MiG-29B (export) lacked ECM (electronic countermeasures), downgraded radar, and weaker avionics compared to Soviet models.
8. Su-7 (1958)
• Exported to: India, Egypt, Iraq, North Korea.
• Export Differences: No major differences, but later models for export had older avionics.
9. Su-17/Su-22 (1969)
• Exported to: Poland, East Germany, Iraq, Libya, Syria, Vietnam.
• Export Differences: Su-22 (export version) had downgraded avionics and weaker radar.
10. Su-27 (1985, late USSR)
• Exported to: China, Vietnam, India, and Ethiopia.
• Export Differences: The export Su-27SK had simplified avionics and less advanced weapons compatibility.
i cannot believe any of this since it lists Soviet used ones as examples of export models
such as?
Yes, the USSR did use some export models of its own aircraft, but this was not common. Here are a few notable cases:
-
MiG-21 (Certain Export Variants)
• The USSR produced many variants of the MiG-21, and in some cases, it used aircraft originally intended for export.
• Some downgraded MiG-21s (like the MiG-21F-13) were used in training units or second-line roles.
• The USSR also received some of the license-produced MiG-21s from its allies (such as Czechoslovakia and India). -
MiG-23 (Export Variants for Training and Testing)
• Some MiG-23MS (a downgraded export variant) were kept by the USSR for evaluation and training purposes. -
MiG-29 (Simpler Export Versions)
• The USSR used early production models that were similar to the downgraded export MiG-29B.
• These lacked advanced electronic warfare (EW) systems but were still used for frontline service. -
Su-22 (Export Version of Su-17)
• The USSR mainly used the Su-17, but in some cases, they operated Su-22s (export models) for evaluation and training.
• The Su-22 had a different engine to match export customer requirements, but the USSR tested it for possible compatibility.
MiG-21F-13, MiG-15Bis, MiG-21bis, MiG-25P, MiG-25RB
cool
AI too dumb to understand difference between downgraded and natural development of a vehicle? or was that you since i dont see the bold font?
F-13 is literally first mass produced MiG-21 variant
There was a boat load of issues from the inception of the F-4 and yes a lot of it revolved around the branches of services implementation of the aircraft. The other issues was just massive ego issues and incompetence especially within logistics.
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too advanced for its own good?
That was AI.
Also, Fair point.
"The MiG-21F-13 wasn’t a “downgraded export model” but rather an early production version. It was the first mass-produced MiG-21 variant and naturally less advanced than later models, rather than being intentionally downgraded for export. However, it was widely exported because it was simple, reliable, and effective.
A better example of true export downgrades would be the MiG-21MF vs. the MiG-21bis (where the MF was often given to client states with less advanced avionics) or the MiG-23MS, which had significantly weaker radar than Soviet frontline models."
ok, but just about every time the US jets won they woudlve had the advantage regardless of it being soviet service or export model.
Kinda. A lot of issues came from branches failing to train their troops on the aircraft. As well the early missiles had reliability issues (Part of the reason being maintenance shops for the missiles being far away on bumpy roads) That’s all without getting into the Air Force’s refusal to use the AIM-9 or AIM-7 I don’t remember which maybe both.
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Yeah, but its like fighting someone with a disability vs a fully healthy person. Theres still a difference.
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it is not that big of a difference. its inferior radar vs slightly less inferior radar
Thats not the only difference you know…
They relied to much on the Aim-7’s with the mediocre radar but honestly the IR missiles worked good.
I support your point that there are hanging baskets that can be modeled, but they don’t need to be associated with other structures. The authorities are too obsessed with game balance and give hanging baskets to tanks without hanging baskets, such as the vt-5
I’ve added a new poll for the changes on the second dev server, with the main focus now being the trunnion changes for both the Leopard and Abrams. The previous poll had ~700 votes, with 82% voting no.
(I accidentally deleted it so I had to use an old screenshot)
Second Dev Leopard Changes
Basket was changed, now the hitbox looks like this
A new vertical has been introduced, with the trunnion block now part of the vertical traverse. A solid block of metal is now part of the vertical.
It does not even provide any armour, the block alone should be approximately 200mm of RHA. The wedge, composite block, and trunnion together amount to only 300mm KE.
Second Dev Abrams Changes
It seems that the basket now has a hitbox similar to the Leopard’s. For reference, here is the Leopard’s turret ring damage model:
The trunnion is still part of the vertical and does not seem to provide any protection. Shooting the gaps for MGs shows that there is not always an increase in protection. If there is, it appears to come from the gun itself or another part.
