New B.R For Planes in air R.B

Game Discussion General Discussion
,
#1

The BR system for planes isn’t balanced at Top tier i’m revising it starting from the Bottom and going up.
12.3 - B.R ALL F-14B , F-16s, Mig-29s, YAK 141
11.7 - SU-39, SU-25T
11.3 - B.R All F4s should be 11.3 - 10.7 F4E II Should be 10.7 F4EK KAI should be 11.3 Phantoms really shouldnt need to fight MIG 29s and F-16s, Phantom FG1 FGR2 Should be 11.0 All they have are skyflashes F-14A Shouldn’t fight planes with A7Ms and planes that are just better than it.

Not done just a starts The A-6E Tram… Should that be at 11.0 or 11.3? I don’t know what gaijin was thinking when they added that and put it at 10.0 That thing is worse than the SU25T

2 Likes
#2

Why is the F-14B not 12.3 in this suggestion?

#3

f14b going to 11.7 is a joke right

#4

For F-14B should be 12.3 if dev consider add AIM-9M, Yak-141 increase 12.3 and add R-73

F-16A Block 15 ADF (USAF & Italian) & F-16A Block 20 up to 12.3 if add AIM-9M

Su-25T & MiG-23MLD could get R-73 and up to 11.7 , and F-4EJ KAI going to 12.0 if dev consider add AIM-7M instead AIM-7E & AIM-9P replace by AAM-3

1 Like
#5

top BR currently should be something like 13.7 or something like that.
13.7 - All F-16 except the Netz/Block 10 because no BVR and while you can go past that weakness, doesn’t mean it is equal in capabilities with the ones that have BVR. F-14B/MiG 29s/M2k-5f.
13.3 - Netz/Block 10, Yak 141 , F-14A (1)
13.0 - MiG 23MLD/MLA/ML , F-14A (1) , JA-37D , M2kC , Tornado F.3/ADV ,J8F
12.7 - All the PD equipped Phantoms,M2k D, J8B ,JA37C
12.3 - K2K(2) , MiG 23M/MF , Harrier Gr7(3) , F-104S ASA (4) , Mirage F1s , MiG 21BiS, Kfir C7, AJS37,MiG 27s, Su-25T/39 (5) , Harrier FRS (6)
12.0 - F-4E US/IS , J7E, Tornado IDS/GR1, Su17M4/22M4 , Kfir C2 , J7D , A-10s/Su-25s, A-7K
11.7 - F-4Ej , F-104S , F-5Es
11.3 - MIIIE , F-104G , J35XS, Kfir Canard , F-4F , MiG 21SMT/MF, Jaguar GR1A/A /E,Su-22M3, A-7E/D, F-8E
11.0 - AJ37, AV-8A/C/GR3 , F-5A/C , F-8U-2
10.7 - A-4N , Hunter F58 , Su-17M2, Jaguar GR1 , A-5C, F-105D,F-8E(FN), Yak-38
10.3 - F-104J , Su-17M2, MiG 21S, Mirage IIIC, F-4F (early), Shahak, Mirage 5F, Nesher, F-4C , J35D, MiG 23BN
10.0 - lighting F6, Harrier GR1, MiG 21F-13/PFM, F-104A/C, J-7II ,Q-5A ,A-4Es
9.7- MiG 19PT/S, J-6A, F-100A/D , F3H-2 , Etendard , Sea Vixen , Hunter F6
9.3 - CL-13B , G91YS, , Javelin , Shenyang F-5, J32B

Notes :
(1) . I don’t know where it fits best… AIM-7Fs are not the best, no all aspect IRs, yet it is capable and AIM-54As work, so i don’t know where it fits best.
(2) Yes K2K has P3s, yet IRs that can be flared and no BVR and it’s not the most maneuverable plane for the bracket it plays .
(3) It could be lower , but AIM-9Ls , i don’t want it to be possible to meet planes without flares. Also it is a strike fighter, it doesn’t have to be perfect in A2A.
(4) PD, All aspects, bad platform … yet lower it will have serious advantages when down tiered.
(5) It has IRCM … could go lower but it shouldn’t.Could go up but it will be useless…
(6) Same story with GR.7… I don’t want all aspects vs no CMs.

About everything else, i took on account Weapons/CMs 1st, performance then. I couldn’t care less if it …turns good, if you can’t really evade missiles. Similarly , no PD/MTI makes the plane way worse than a plane that has it since you are not on equal footing, you’ll play defensive.
Towards lower tier i’m a little messy. Mostly because i’m on a rush now… feel free to change/criticize things , i may didn’t think it enough when i proposed the BR.

7 Likes
#6

thanks had the wrong plane

#7

eh 13.7 cutting it tooo far my max was going to be 12.7 but that was only if newer planes are added, and i don’t see how the F4E should be 12.0 when the F4EJ is at 11.7 , the A7E/D should have never gone over 9.7 it literally cannot do anything or make it to any bases. the A-4N would be too slow at 10.7 the F14A can’t fight Mig 29s or F16s i don’t know why people think its something to be feared. Phoenixes are not some super kill everything missile. all you have to do is turn and they miss. The A-10s and first 2 SUs should’t be at 12.0 thats insane. Having phatoms at 12.7 because they have pulse doppler isnt a reason -.- they should be up above other planes that came in after them.

#8

Had the wrong plane

#9

@sartt I guess 13.3 for 4+ gen Multirole fighter fitted with modern pulse-doppler radar low RCS & PESA radar and early 4++ gen fighter with AESA radar at rank IX

13.7 for 4++ gen Multirole fighter aircraft with AESA radar in late rank IX

#10

F-4E has AIM-7E-2, way better than EJs AIM-7E especially in merge scenarios…
F-4E has Agile Eagle, it will literally massacre F-4EJ after the merge.
F-4E will fare much better in both BVR and WVR than EJ …EJ Kai should be better than E in BVR and all of PD Phantoms fare better in BVR against any no PD one.
Imagine in my ranking they are 1.0 Br lower than the top, which is better than 0.7 BR difference they have now.

However , you are right in some scenarios… We need more like a 14.0 BR already to actually have balanced matches. For example PD Phantoms shouldn’t meet top tier, where they are at huge disadvantage in every aspect except some BVR scenarios. Your max of 12.7 doesn’t cut it since all those planes have huge differences. And that’s what gets you (and me… and others) trying to solve the issues.
Generally there shouldn’t be a scenario that similar role planes don’t have a chance against each other… Different role planes should have advantages/disadvantages depending on their role. A strike fighter should fear when a superiority fighter is near them… not see them as free kills because at 1950/ early 60 didn’t have flares…

Where i strongly disagree with you is with handholding Strike fighters. They should not be able to play superiority roles in ANY scenario. They should be able to get a kill when it is handy… but they should try to avoid A2A conflict, not go for it.

#11

Didn’t anyone realize that the br issue between air-realistic and ground-realistic modes has already become serious? Everyone keeps saying, br needed to raise 12.3, 12.7, 13.0, etc. But what about the ground? The tank has nearly ended, even counting the future; take the Soviet tech tree as an example; t-80bvm is 11.7, and then you only left two T90 m and T14, let’s pretend t90m is 12.3, and t14 will be 13.0. The fighter, however, begins the fourth generation, not even getting into advanced fox-3 missiles such as aim120-a and r77; now, pretend F-16a and mig 29 9.13 are 12.0, then the later modified such as F-16 C with 120a will at least be 12.3, then f-16c with 120c will be 12.7? And with C-5 will rise to 13.0, and I am not even talking about AESA radar, and AESA based on the material will become more different? How do you balance it? You can’t let ground trees maintain 12.3 or 13.0 while air trees get 14.7, 15.0, even higher

#12

ah was a lil confused lmao

#13

This has been a quick reminder why players should never been in charge of balancing decisions.

Too many subjective, conflicting opinions.

1 Like
#14

I honestly think they will only expand the top end of the BR as new aircraft are added like they did in Apex Predators and leave the lower BRs as they are… ignoring singular plane adjustments ofc.

#15

Ground tree plays lower BR because planes after a point get huge advantage because of weapons…
As many people have said (and GJ has denied) planes should have different ranks for GRB and ARB, as they gave when we play arcade and SIM…
GRB is an entirely different mode than ARB… there is no comparison , thus keeping the same BRs is at the very least stupid (and i’m being polite).
Example : MiG 21F-13, Su-7 are both 9.3 … what you pick to kill GTs and play CAS? Shouldn’t they have different BRs specifically for that mode showing the superior plane for the mission (in that case CAS) ?
But… they deny it…
Yet people asking to find solutions for the jet tiers being too compressed are the problem?

Now that they cleared out what they will do about economy… they must do a roadmap about balance.

And to be honest, they could change accordingly the GRB BRs… It’s not that they not need " cleaning" .
The game needs decompression anyway… even in ships…

1 Like
#16

I do think F-16s should get a lower BR than F-14s.
IRL the F-16 performs way better than the older, heavier F-14 but in-game it’s just opposite due to the G-limit on F-16 series. An F-16 loses either turnfight or BVR when fighting against an F-14.

#17

Mostly good BR definition but I have some disagreement on J-8: both J-8 should get a BR step decrease.
J-8B should be 12.3 or even 12.0. This thing have no PD radar. Actually it got even worse radar than F5E(Yes F-5E, no typo), which make the 2 Aspide almost unable to launch. But when comes to dogfight it’s worse than J7E due to worse energy retention.
Similar problem goes for J-8F, it got good radar but taken away SARH missiles. The Python3/PL-8 performs equally bad as any IR missile against a flared enemy. HMD does give J8F an advantage but still the flare problem, it can hardly make a hit in top tier battle. You may want to use HMD in turnfight but the sad fact is you speed drops from Mach1.2 to 400km/h after a 180 turn. So the HMD is quite limited on such a bad flight model. I would rather choose Kurnass if I want to play with Python3/PL-8.

1 Like
#18

Yes please can we have a rework for the ARB, its a nightmare at the moment. But to take it further there needs to be a separate BR for planes in GRB. It’s nice that we get new modern toys but we cant have them added without a rework of the BR system.

I’ll setting for just a rework in ARB pretty please?

#19

Personally, I think 13.3-13.7 for 4+ gen to 4++ gen multirole fighter aircraft carry advanced Air-to-Air Missile & Air-to-Ground armament, advanced avionics, fitted with modern pulse-doppler radar low RCS, PESA radar & AESA radar at rank IX only

#20

Thanks for the definitions.
I thought J8B had PD. And the placing of J8F is bad as you said since it doesn’t have BVR at all and it’s not comparable to F-16 in a dogfight. In theory J8F is like a Kfir C7 but with radar.
I got your point. Well said.

1 Like