Using Mississippi with AP to ammo rack Scharnhorst is perfectly viable and makes the sinking through HE-induced flooding approach unnecessary.
^This
We don’t need artificial nerf of armour, but a damage model more focused on flooding rather than oneshot kills to balance Scharnhorst. The unrepairable breach is still a rather raw mechanic with lots of flaws and bugs, yet it already makes a big punch to Scharn’s effectiveness. Without new mechanics like this, moving Scharn to 8.0 or more neither would balance it because even Iowa or Yamato in the future would have had a hard time against it, meanwhile with proper simulation of flooding damage, even WW1 capital ships shall be able to deal with it effectively.
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Honestly - you gave excellent arguments overall and you got me convinced.
Now two questions remain:
- Do you know when the bug with shells not causing permanent breaches will be fixed? (As I understand it - developers are well aware of the issue).
- Do you know if such changes to the weapon balancing are planned?
(BTW, you know what happen to your Improved underwater-travel physics for naval shells suggestion?)
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Yes it is acknowledged, but no ETA for fix yet
I don’t quite get what do you mean about “weapon balancing”. All weapons in game work under a unified system calculated with historical data wherever possible. If you are talking about DM design or specifically about unrepairable breaches, developers had promised to discuss about improvement of this mechanic in the future.
Part of this suggestion had been already implemented, for example we have ricochets on water and simulation of velocity loss of projectiles in water. The simulations aren’t very realistic atm but maybe we will see more improvements in the future as the game design evolves.
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Great, thanks for all the answers :)
Yes, that’s what I meant. It would be most interesting to see how it develops!
lol
lmao even
I felt like this would be the best place to ask: does anyone have advice for killing ships with turtleback’s.
Currently using the British HMS Colossus/Dreadnought and also the Glorious and i’ve noticed that the one ships I can never pen through to the ammoracks are usually German ones (things like Nassau give my 13.5’s a lot of trouble), literally I can never get through no matter how many times I accurately hit the same armour plate.
Obviously Colossus herself is quite well protected what with a good belt and then the secondary armoured deck which is usually almost parallel to the angle of shell fall but regardless my question is more about how the hell I kill these (usually German) ships. Particularly Nassau as she’s spammed out to hell.
HE. There isn’t much point in trying to use AP against a lot of these ships. The new flooding mechanic allows ships with shells that have a lot of HE filler to sink ships they normally can’t pen. SAP is sometimes the best of both worlds as it usually has a lot of HE filler and acts as AP if it pens and HE if it doesn’t.
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Whilst I agree larger changes are needed . I dont think the perma flooding has made any difference to the Scharnhorst for certain ships. Put nearly 100 rounds into one (at relatively close range) in the HMS Renown. Along with others going full-auto into it. I think we had 4 or 5 of us all focusing fire on the Scharn… Didnt get sunk. Something is still deeply wrong with that ship’s damage model.
Are you suggesting that the Scharnhorst would realistically be totally immune to the Des Moines class cruisers? I have had games where I will be shooting Scharnhorsts literally at point blank for several minutes, broadside to broadside, while they are focused on the actual threats and I still was unable to do anything but delay my inevitable death by peppering their heavy guns and towers. That does not seem realistic at all.
As I said before, there’s a bug causing AP shells not to create beaches at all, meanwhile the SAP shells doesn’t work as good as HE in terms of punching large breaches that “touch” the water. Generally speaking any ship capable of firing HE shells with more than 70mm pen can counter Scharnhorst quite effectively, while other ships can also provide assistance when Scharnhorst is already heavily flooded (as the vulnerable 35mm hull is touching water).
Not just Scharnhorst, basically every top tier battleship can be invincible to cruiser’s gunfire
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Yep, Unfortunately that renders the Hood and Renown very weak when fighting Scharn
I mean, i had a few minutes and I was cycling through all my shells (including HE) at the guns, hull, and towers just to try to scratch it and I didn’t see any appreciable damage even to the crew.
Hood is fine, since Scharnhorst is almost impossible to kill her within 9000m, and Hood’s SAP can still pose a serious threat to Scharn if it successfully penetrates the 320mm belt, and occasionally the AP can ammorack Scharn via underwater hits given the steep shell trajectory. I personally never find it very difficult to counter Scharnhorst in Hood (ofc not as easy as in Iron Dukes). Renown on the other hand has a hard time since her survivability is meh
Apparently the guy you were shooting at was an experienced player who knew not to repair damaged modules when under rain of fire. Since he didn’t do repairs, the ship’s crew would not going to replace those damaged modules and stay inside the citadel which you can never hurt
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Will give HE a go with the Colossus’ 12’s when I get the 13.5’s I’ll go back to SAP, colossus has 70mm of penetration so based on @HK_Reporter and what you’ve said in this thread I’ll give that a go. I don’t have Hood just yet but I do look forward to her, but I think I must’ve gotten it easy when I played Russia because Britain has been much more… challenging.
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Keep in mind that the trick is to shoot at the bow or stern first, by completely flooding these area the ship will sits considerably lower in water where the 35mm hull is going to be very close to the surface, after then you can start to shoot at the middle of the ship, every HE shell hitting the 35mm hull near the surface will speed up their death sentence
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I still find her a pain to counter. I’ve been more than once taken out with ease by a Scharn and barely been able to do much damage. Eitehr due to the massive shell dispersal or shells just not really doing much damage.
What’s your recommendation then for taking on the Scharn in either ship? Just aim below the turrets and cross your fingers?
Does this work for things like Nassau’s too?
Also cheers for the advice, I’m not particularly experienced with naval although I have lots of the USSR tree.
I do find the dispersion a massive pain in the ass when I try and use Glorious given her slower RoF and only having 4 guns. But as HK has said in this thread (or maybe it was another), they’ve had an internal suggestion/report to do something with the accuracy of the 15’s.