Nerf MiG-23ML/MLD

[Morvran]

@WalletWorrier

Much longer range.

and?

This is why 9Ls on anything other than a strike aircraft are at higher BRs. But range isnt everything, just means the target has more time to flare and the missille is easier to kinematically defeat. Heck. I’ve had 9Ms fired within the LSZ just… miss the target.

@WalletWorrier

Almost every aircraft will wipe the floor with it. Let me show you in a 1v1 :)

Mig-23MLD will easily beat the heavy British Phantoms and probably beat the non-agile eagle phantoms as well.

Will easily beat anything subsonic

Will easily beat any of the strike aircraft at that BR

Probably can roughly match something like an Mirage F1.

So what exactly will “always beat the Mig-23MLD”?

@WalletWorrier

False

Fact. It was nerfed to IRL performance and then Gaijin buffed it back up again rather than dropping its BR which would have required AAM nerfs as well.

@WalletWorrier

MTI is nearly useless. I can show you how to easily defeat it when we 1v1.

Then I guess the Mirage F1 at 12.0 needs to drop down to 11.7 as it also only has MTI.

@WalletWorrier

None of these statements are true.

Have you ever flown the VIggen D. F-104 or Mirage F1. Heck have you ever even flown the Mig-23MLD?

@WalletWorrier

AIM-7E-2/Skyflash are at least on par with the R-24R, not to mention the AIM-7F and SuperTEMP, plus there’s twice as many of them. The R-60Ms are also kinematically one of the worst missiles at the BR.

They are ONLY Stronger at alt when fired from greater than 10-12km away. At sub 8km, the R-24R always wins, It also has IOG which is no small buff. Aim-7Fs are maybe on par, but Id still give the point to the R-24R. Skyflash SuperTEMPs I didnt count because the Torando F3/ADV should probably be 12.3 if/when it gets fixed and buffed up to IRL performance (BOL overhaul, Phimat Pods and correct FM) (or if nothing else, with the decompression should actually be a different BR to most of the Phantoms) at the moment, the Skyflash STs are the only reason its not 11.3

@WalletWorrier

The R-60Ms are also kinematically one of the worst missiles at the BR.

No they are not. They are some of the best 1.5km IR missiles at that BR range.

@WalletWorrier

The other vehicles at the BR range don’t have the same mountain of disadvantages as the MiG-23s. It’s a lot worse for its BR than the Hunter. We can demonstrate this in a couple 1v1s!

Such as?

F-104s at 12.0 should probably be 11.3 compared to the Mig-23MLD. they practically dont have an RWR.

@WalletWorrier

The GSh has lower fire rate, velocity, and explosive. Plus, it’s usually not fighting ADENs but rather Vulcans.

Faces 30mm DEFA all the time. So…

And in GSB the Mig-23MLD is the same BR as the Sea Harrier FRS1. So…

[MrBombastic8]

yall still going?

[ron_23]

@Morvran

This is why 9Ls on anything other than a strike aircraft are at higher BRs. But range isnt everything, just means the target has more time to flare and the missille is easier to kinematically defeat. Heck. I’ve had 9Ms fired within the LSZ just… miss the target.

the biggest reason why i think the 9l is wastly better is its flare ressitance in rear aspect in adition to the extra range which means you are able to take some shots where it is less likely for the enemy to notice you

[Morvran]

You deleted the comment before I could quote it, but did you jsut claim the Mig-23MLD will loose to a dogfight against a Tornado?

If so… You have literally just lost all credibility.

[WalletWorrier]

@Morvran

Mig-23MLD will easily beat the heavy British Phantoms and probably beat the non-agile eagle phantoms as well.

Prove it. Take your MLD out and show me how it handles :)

@Morvran

Will easily beat anything subsonic

Will easily beat any of the strike aircraft at that BR

No shit so will any other fighter

@Morvran

So what exactly will “always beat the Mig-23MLD”?

Any Phantom with a competent pilot, agile-eagle or not, Mirage F1s, F-5s, Tornadoes, basically anything besides the F-104s

@Morvran

Then I guess the Mirage F1 at 12.0 needs to drop down to 11.7 as it also only has MTI

Gaijin didn’t fuck over the Mirage’s MTI like they did the MiGs. Plus, Magic IIs.

@Morvran

F-104s at 12.0 should probably be 11.3 compared to the Mig-23MLD. they practically dont have an RWR

Yes the F-104s are one of the very few aircraft that genuinely are worse than the MiG-23s.

[WalletWorrier]

Prove it. Take out your MiG-23 and beat me in a Tornado.

[Morvran]

Yes and no. I’ve had 9Ls fired at 2km, in rear-aspect against something on full reheat just instantly swap to the flare.

The issue is that IR signatures basically arent modeled. This is why a SHar wont flare a R-60M fired at 3km in rear-aspect if its low air-speed but how an F-5 can 1 flare defeat even a magic II at most ranges.

But I’ve seen R-60Ms ignroe flares enough times to know that they do have some flare resistance if used properly, like leading the shot and firing late.

Let alone the R-24Ts can be absolute monsters

[WalletWorrier]

It’s not to change his mind, but the minds of others that will stumble across this thread and be mislead by the loudest voice in the room shouting that the MiG-23 is OP.

[Morvran]

Okay. I’ll bring the Mig-23MLD and you Bring the Tornado F3 as you clearly have it.

Though the fact you think the Mig-23MLD will loose to a Tornado is just hilarious

[WalletWorrier]

Take any MiG-23. I’ll take the Tornado IDS. We’ll fly guns-only, see which has the better FM. Because of course the F.3 has better missiles, you said so yourself, and this is a discussion about the flight performance.

[Morvran]

@WalletWorrier

Magic IIs.

and? It has MTI and a weak RWR.

You are claiming the Mig-23MLD should be at 11.7 despite the fact it has great CM load, good speed, good handling and 6x decent missiles including some of the best SARH and IR missiles for that BR (The R-24R/T) but needs to be lower because it has a poor radar and RWR.

Well. I could argue the Mirage F1 should be 11.7 because it has MTI, weaker RWR and only 2x good IR missiles, with 2x Very weak SARH missiles (much much weaker than R-24Rs) so… Mirage F1 to 11.7 then?

@WalletWorrier

Any Phantom with a competent pilot, agile-eagle or not, Mirage F1s, F-5s, Tornadoes, basically anything besides the F-104s

Yeah, you have just lost crediblity here. If you think a Tornado will out dogfight a Mig-23.

[ron_23]

@Morvran

This is why a SHar wont flare a R-60M fired at 3km in rear-aspect

you are lucky if you manage to get a hit with a r-60 at 1km rear aspect that a 3km shot is just not happening

@Morvran

But I’ve seen R-60Ms ignroe flares enough times to know that they do have some flare resistance if used properly, like leading the shot and firing late.

what i have seen is that ppl funnel r-60s with their flares, if you know it is an r-60 a single flare is enough

depending on the direction you get fired from and your flare pattern it is possible that the r-60 reaquiers you because of its seeker FOV

[Morvran]

No, you must take the Tornado F3 as thats the fighter variant.

Also, the fact you think a Tornado IDS will beat a Mig-23 in a gunfight is just hilarious

[WalletWorrier]

@Morvran

Yeah, you have just lost crediblity here. If you think a Tornado will out dogfight a Mig-23

Then BEAT ME IN A 1V1 YOU COWARD
I’ve flown Phantoms and MiG-23s and can safely say the MiG is inferior. You’ve flown only the Phantoms and claim that the one you haven’t tried is superior and OP…

[ron_23]

why would it matter?

the IDS has worse flight performance
if he is that sure that he is able to win it shouldnt be an issue as long as he dosent complain afterwards

[Morvran]

@ron_23

you are lucky if you manage to get a hit with a r-60 at 1km rear aspect that a 3km shot is just not happening

Yeah, but we were testing just how insane the IR signatures were for the Harrier and we figured. “R-60 at 3km doesnt get much easier to flare than that”.

Still was hit. Took 8 flares + throttle down + Jinking to defeat.

[ron_23]

@Morvran

Jinking to defeat.

thats because of the huge seeker FOV like i said above

@ron_23

depending on the direction you get fired from and your flare pattern it is possible that the r-60 reaquiers you because of its seeker FOV

[Morvran]

True, but the point is, I dont have the Mig-23MLD.

though neither does he but hes claiming the SPO-15 is really bad despite having never used it.

But If he wants he can take the Mig-23ML and I’ll take the Tornado Gr1, but its just a waste of time. Everyone knows the Mig-23 will win

[Morvran]

and the IR signature of the Harrier is one of the hottest in game. We repeated the test with the Harrier at various air speeds (Harrier gets more thrust at lower air speeds and thus is hotter as thrust = heat sig) and at high air speeds, an identically fired R-60M instantly went for the flare.

We were testing the thrust to flare ratio stuff. TLDR: IR Signatures are janky mess and need to be overhaueld

[tokerstar]

Id take the F3 everyday and hope the 8 missiles kills b4 merge XD
Tornado is alot of fun where the mig 23 isnt IMO

I agree with the other guy. R60’s are terrible, have to be used as darts, iv had more kills with 10g rockets!
And tthe f104 into mig 21 flight model is horrible. The 24’s slap and its fast, bout it