Nerf MiG-23ML/MLD

[kizvy]

@Morvran_

12.0 let alone 11.7.

ngl its actually worse at a lower br because theres more j band air craft, and spo 15 cant detect j band. most top tier stuff are i band. so it’s actually better at higher brs

[Morvran]

Because throttling down significantly reduces thrust.

100% throttle at 420 kts you cannot flare an R-60
100% throttle at 600+ kts you can easily

But if you throttle down to even 50-60% throttle, you are cutting your thrust by a huge margin. (also 80% throttle on the harrier is actually combat thrust, 80% is the “normal” max RPM of the pegasus engine, which is why it overheats over 80% throttle)

[kizvy]

@Morvran_

100% throttle at 600+ kts you can easily

that makes no sense, that only works if it loses thrust at high speed

[Morvran]

True, though they did also artifically buff the SPO-10/15 (at least in SB) to always be able to detect things like the F-4s PD radar lock.

[kizvy]

spo 15 could always detect pd, spo 10 couldnt so yea

[Morvran]

Yes, the Harrier has a reversed thrust curve, you gain thrust at lower air speeds.

@Gunjob

Not specifically no, but the Harrier’s (all of them) gain the most thrust at lower speeds, so as you turn and flare you’re increasing in thrust and lowering the ratio between the two. This probably explains why it feels hard to flare an IR missile, as you’re probably already going pretty slow while defending.

[WalletWorrier]

@Morvran_

So it works fine at 12.7/13.0 then? So whats the problem at 12.0 let alone 11.7.

The AIM-9G is found at 12.7, so it’s fine at 12.0 then?
The RWR is not the weakness of the MiG-23MLD it’s the awful radar. It’s the ML/A with SPO-10 that are also majorly lacking in RWR capability.

[kizvy]

mld specifically is pretty OP, especially sim (11.3 for who knows what reason). 23 ml though is just mid/decent in rb/sb

[Morvran]

@WalletWorrier

The RWR is not the weakness of the MiG-23MLD it’s the awful radar.

Which is why the tactic i’ve most often seen used is to run R-24Ts and use the IRST. A few i know that fly it have gotten loads of kills out of that. Though R-24Rs are definetly the best SARH of the BR.

@WalletWorrier

It’s the ML/A with SPO-10 that are also majorly lacking in RWR capability.

Which is the ONLY reason why I think the Mig-23ML can remain at 11.7, but the Mig-23MLD being 11.7 is just stupid. They either need to drop the BR of a few 12.0s down to 11.7 (and 1 or 2 maybe lower still like the F-104) or increase the Mig-23MLD to 12.0.

[kizvy]

@Morvran_

he F-104

if the f104s asa is still 12.0 for who knows what reason, then mld can be 12.0. also the asa has an even worse rwr than the spo 10, so rwr argument is not valid

[Morvran]

Yep. Ultiamtely they need to decompress everything, but there is no way the Mig-23MLD would suffer at 12.0 anymore than half of the aircraft at 12.0 already do.

But some 10.7 and even some 11.0s probably shouldnt be fighting the Mig-23MLD.

If/when we get a decompression, Mig-23MLD can easily be at the same BR as multiple aircraft currently at 12.0.

[WalletWorrier]

@Morvran_

Which is why the tactic i’ve most often seen used is to run R-24Ts and use the IRST

This only works if the target is completely oblivious. If “their vision doesn’t extend beyond 2km” as someone might say. You’re giving up all radar missiles for low-overload IR missiles. Plus, IRST has no IFF and will lock onto flares so it can be pre-flared (or lock onto allies in a furball).

[xXkevinlordXx]

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

[Morvran]

@WalletWorrier

This only works if the target is completely oblivious.

So, you mean like Aim-9Gs or Aim-9Ls?

@WalletWorrier

You’re giving up all radar missiles for low-overload IR missiles.

I thought the Radar was useless, but now you dont want to give up your OP SARH?

R-24Ts are also some of the best IR missiles of the BR (excellent speed, range and iirc, some of the most flare resistant non-IRCCM missiles in the game)

@WalletWorrier

Plus, IRST has no IFF

So dont lock onto teammates, If this is ARB we are talking about, then open your eyes. Also, you wouldnt fire any missile into a furball. unless you wanted to TK. The Mig-23MLD isnt exactly unqiuely nerfed in this regard.

Heck in the Tornado F3 I wouldnt fire even an SARH into a furball unless I was confident of deconfliction

@WalletWorrier

will lock onto flares so it can be pre-flared

Only if they see it coming, which unlike radar, wont give them warning.

But if your entire argument is “it can be pre-flared therefore its bad”. Then I would like to introduce you to any and all IR missiles in the game.

[WalletWorrier]

You’ve never used the MiG-23. You have zero credibility. The MiG-23 is a poor aircraft, period.
Hell, wishlist the ML. I’ll buy it for you just to prove a point.

[XxJax0NeinxX-live]

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

[Morvran]

there are 2 people who have, in this thread that have disagreed with you that have. So…

But you have never used the Tornado F3 and yet have commented on its performance.

[kitsune_qq]

@Morvran_

But you have never used the Tornado F3 and yet have commented on its performance.

it looks cool, should perform great.

Spoiler

tbh that isnt case for tornado

[WalletWorrier]

Fine, I’ll retract my statements about the Tornado, if you retract yours about the MiG-23.
You have literally nothing to lose but your pride and delusions by taking up my offer for the MiG-23.

[XxJax0NeinxX-live]

Don’t get me wrong, I absolutely hate fighting that thing in Sim (nothing like being slammed by 24Ts without getting a ping), but I don’t believe it is over preforming. I kind of think it is balanced for the most part at 11.7, although I guess it could go to 12.0 with little consequences (besides the Su-33 spam)