You mean like a missile SPAA facing off against an MBT, or similar? :P
No, because tanks aren’t the intended targets for SAMs.
Yes, exactly. Different types of vehicles have different roles, and aren’t inherently expected to be able to have a “1v1 quickdraw at noon” with everything else in their BR bracket.
Bombers and fighters being another example.
compare torpedoboats at the same BR like PR206 and Hugin or Pfeil. in a 1:1 the PR206 wins quite easily based on its immense firepower. I don’t know if the Saetta or Freccia has a chance vs the PR206. In additon the PR206 has much better torpedoes (speed and range) as all other top BR boats. The same with the SKR7/1 comparing other frigates at the same BR like Karl Marx or other - in every 1:1 the SKR will win - again based on firepower and damage model.
Another issue is the drastical decrease of targetting time for bluewater and most of the frigates. This has a very negative impact on gameplay of small coastals - they are now much easier to destroy due to the nearly instant target indicator.
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Bombers and fighters are a poor analogy as the objectives are completely different. Bomber objectives are PvE. In naval there are only cap points and other players to fight. So role is irrelevant. All that matters is damage output while still being able to take at least a few hits. If you lack either of the two, which is always the case in an uptier, you’re completely obsolete. It’s like having one of those unarmored potato trucks with an autocannon fighting a Gepard in an open map fighting over caps. Even if they can technically pen the Gepard, it just has the superior burst mass and survivability to win.
To be honest, I don’t know how Gaijin could fix it, but some decompression would be a start. A boat with a couple 40mm Bofors or 76mm guns (like the PT-812 and the MBK-161 early) shouldn’t be facing stuff like the Pr 206 in a mode with caps and PvP objectives as the norm.
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Even if you have vehicles with different roles, you can still kill and heavily damage fighters with bombers and vice versa. Its not a case of fighters always winning or vice versa. Either you have never played planes and you are just pulling examples out of thin air or you are writing stuff in bad faith.
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Rather like the previously mentioned tanks/SPAA example.
The core point I’m getting at is that ships inherently have more “internal diversity” than tanks or planes, and thus not everything can be expected to 1v1 everything else. Especially when we’re talking full uptiers.
Except SPAA doesn’t have to fight tanks. Or cap points. It’s meant to destroy planes first and foremost. Anti-tank capability is secondary.
Which is all well and good except when the game expects players to do. I just played a match where boats had a direct line of sight from spawn to spawn like one kilometer away. And yeah, you get spawn protection. For what, 5 seconds? 10? What does it matter when you have two or three enemies with bigger guns and more resilient boats firing at you? People complain about tank map design, but not even the worst tank map is anywhere close to this level of atrociousness. People at least have to drive for a bit before they start camping the enemy spawn.
If what you’re trying to say is that the game can’t ever be properly balanced because of the multiple varieties of vessels, sure, I agree. The problem is the game doesn’t even try, the BRs are so stupidly compressed that it makes early jet BRs reasonable in comparison. Separating BRs a little would at least give some early boats a bit of breathing room and make the game somewhat playable.
Also scrap the maps. I admit I know very little about naval history, but I don’t recall the reading about any big naval battle where both sides spent the whole time hiding behind rocks of some tiny archipelago. I’m sure there’s a balance to be found between giving players no cover and turning everything into a camping simulator.
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F1 game
Kill 2 or 3 coastal boats, cap 2 points = look, a chance to win
Enemy team has 1 SKR = destroys everything, caps 2 points - 9 kills 20k points of damage, never dies = wins the game
F2 game
4 Pr206, 1 Saetta sitting behind rocks and shooting rockets, 1 SKR spamming rockets = enemy wins
(oh, and a Saetta rocket kills my plane @ 6 km away
Awesome!
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W game
More Pr206 and US Douglas with guided missiles = enemy team wins again regardless of how well you can play. No skill needed to spam rockets and win.
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M game
Do your daily tasks - yey
or
the enemy team has SKR-1 = 3 planes, 9 boats, 4 assists, 3 bases captured with zero deaths
For the ppl in the back saying go play bluewater, the % of daily/special tasks to complete there is small x % of getting a map where you could complete the tasks, example: kill planes - in a br people barely spawn planes and/or they are on the other end of the map to reach them. So, you think - I will go back to coastal - where you get SKR, Pr206, Saeta and destroyers in your base. Fix it people.
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No. Yes, rockets are awesome. But the boats that fire them are easy to kill. This is the least of navals balance issues. Your problem are not the rockets, so I’m not even sure why you’re mentioning them. Your actual issue is the lack of advanced coastal boats for some nations, due to historical and other reasons - combined with overall too much compression in naval. Those playing the Pr206 and other advanced coastal would love to see you have better coastal vessels, because right now, those players are spawning into battles where they mostly see destroyers.
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Preventing what Gaijn thinks is EXCESSIVE imbalance for sure, but their idea of what constitutes too much imbalance never seems to be teh same as players’, and it certainly does not prevent very significant imbalance that can be a major obstacle to winning in lower BR equipment.
That is a presumption I’ve never seen written by Gaijin - certainly lower BR equipment in all modes CAN fight and do damage and sometimes kill higher BR equipment, but it usually requires some help - egg a counterbalancing difference in player skill, catching the higher BR by surprise or distracting it with other opponents etc.
1 on 1 you should have no such expectations.
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I mention the rockets because they can be fired from behind cover and you cannot do anything meaningful against them. And even when not behind cover SKR can easily destroy any boats before they can do meaningful damage. Yes, compression is one way of explaining the problem.
SKR can be easily killed by which coastal boat?
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I don’t see it as a real problem.
You let them know about our lord and savour called the BM-21 PT Boat.
All jokes aside, most of the boats that have rockets are fragile and easily destroyed by your typical 20-30-40mm autocannons you see on coastal boasts, MPK.204 for example. SKR is a problem for coastal boats, of course. But at 4.3, it has its own problems in the name of Frigates and Destroyers. Decompression will help further distance the SKR from more coastal vessels.
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as you mentioned SKR is really a problem for boats - was the skr in the given example prev. undamaged?
As PR206 is now more fragile as before the SKR still is a problem for destroyers as it “eats” a lot of hits. I never observed to one-shot a undamaged SKR…
And one comment on missiles (Douglas, Saetta, Bravy)- it is very frustrating to be killed by a modern missile in your WW2 plane. Ok, one can evade them - sometimes… And SKR with their proxy fuses are also a “clean sky” vessel
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Yes. The BM-21 can nuke the SKR easily. SKR is fragile to rockets (it took more than one rocket to kill him, I spammed him). But obviously that is only a single boat, hence it was a bit tongue in cheek for me to post that. If you do have BM-21 boat, I highly recommend it. PR.206 is very fragile, I’ve certainly noticed it. Once anything puts you on fire it is usually the end. Love those guns on it, though. As long as you don’t jam the guns. And yeah, it’s rough to fly around that BR - those AI gunners seem to be able to hit you pin point from across the map, even before you have to deal with missiles from Bravy, etc.
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So, your entire point goes like this
- I dont see rockets as a problem (cause you play on a boat with rockets)
- yes, majority of coastal boats cannot damage the SKR - but since I dont see it as a problem…
- and akcually the BM-21 with ROCKETS can easily damage SKR - because it has ROCKETS - but its ok since you play one and thus rockets are fine.
Can you at least pretend to interact with what we are complaining about and not just -Im fine so your complaints are irrelevant?
We are truly glad that you have a boat that can fire rockets and damage the SKR. Awesome. For there rest of us, the fun of having our boats destroyed by rockets and/or guns of Pr207/etc is simply not there.
I play, Jaguar and I can destroy plenty of boats - but barely scratch the SKR/rtc and one burst from PR/others kills the Jaguar faster than anything. With a broad salvo from a big ship you can have a chance of avoiding/getting away, not with these ones. Also, like Rupert64 said rockets are stupidly OP against planes.
S game - same thing with LeOrla - encountered one today and barely any damage… like, come on
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I admit I know very little about naval history, but I don’t recall the reading about any big naval battle where both sides spent the whole time hiding behind rocks of some tiny archipelago.
Most Bluewater Navy battles fight on open seas and “Mosquito boats” (torpedo boats, patrol boats, etc.) aren’t even there because they can’t carry enough fuel, the sea state can often crush their hulls and they are made for using terrain to sneak and shoot. There are very few cases where blue water and coastal engaged each other in any sustained or large-scale manner. Exceptions could be found in amphibious landings but I haven’t yet seen a beachhead or an amphibious landing ship (which might be a decent objective, defending the landing ships). Trying to effectively balance blue water navy and coastal is not only a fools errand but tries to make an artificial “fairness” which is unfair to all and excessively unrealistic.
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Yeah but this is WT, so history be damned.
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