Enjoy your broken Cyclone guns
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/bYD5w95llxuR
love to see it
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literally never had one EVER. and I literally just grinded all the German bbs
Maybe cause you played single ship 192 times on not so populated BRs? But you still got 6 vs 6 or more teams most of the time if we look at your replays, while NRB guys struggling 2 vs 2 or even worse. Besides that naval event which attracted players ended in September.
so if we go back in time and play a different br range (that you don’t specify) we’ll have full games?
What you noticed there is actually a problem with the HEI-T shells’ arc of fire:
Spoiler
In general, this vehicle is almost unplayable if you rely on these HEI-T shells. When you research pure APDS shells, it works fine, but the problem is that APDS shells in Naval have very poor damage and aren’t really worth using. So without properly functioning HEI-T shells, this vessel is basically dead.
I managed to spade the USS Cyclone, but it was one of the worst experiences I’ve had in the game.
NOTE: While writing this message I had the idea to ask ChatGPT about this, and it directed me to the 25 mm Bushmaster specification:
Spoiler
You can see that the HEI-T shell has a time of flight of 3.3 s to 2 km. ChatGPT calculated a TOF of about 6.9 s to 3 km with a simple drag model (excluding elevation, gravity and air-density changes). Accounting for a full ballistic trajectory, ChatGPT estimated a more realistic value up to about 7.8 s.
I ran a test in War Thunder and measured roughly 7.6 s to 3 km for the HEI-T shell. I timed shot and hit markers in a recording, so this is quite accurate.
So the drag on this HEI-T round is huge, and apparently realistic. What seems unrealistic is the default belt that mixes HEI-T and APDS. ChatGPT confirmed such mixed belts are technically possible, but they make little tactical sense because the two rounds require different arcs of fire. In the game, the turret is always aimed to make the first round in the belt hit (in this case HEI-T), so APDS rounds that follow end up on a completely different trajectory.
There is another problem: HEI-T rounds have an auto-destruct fuze after a certain time of flight. Because these HEI-T rounds lose speed so quickly, they often self-destruct before reaching long distances. The practical result is that on longer ranges the default mixed belt performs terribly: HEI-T rounds simply disappear and APDS rounds miss because the turret elevation is wrong for them.
Given these facts, I think the default mixed belt should be removed. Keep HEI-T and APDS as two separate belts, probably with HEI-T as the default loadout, even if it’s less useful on most maps because of engagement distances.
BTW, I wish I’d had ChatGPT two years ago. I suspected the weird arc was caused by drag, but I couldn’t believe a modern gun would use rounds with such extreme drag. Turns out that’s actually the case. Maybe it’s less of an issue in real life, but in the game it makes this shell practically useless. And the mixed HEI-T/APDS belt in War Thunder makes no sense at all.
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The r130’s 37mm secondary is 10 degrees off when fired in unison with its primaries, making it nearly always miss. Switch to secondaries let the ai control primaries keeping the accuracy. and fire the secondary yourself 10 degrees off intentially to correct the cross eyed firing systems.
I hear what you sayin.
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+/- 1.0 also needs some thought, the power difference is much more severe in naval
this may change a little if ships are forced to repair vulnerable things like AA guns and loose crew a bit more vs this tanking-like situation you can achieve by just doing fires and breeches, but cruisers and most destroyers would also be weakened by this while having no real way to damage early battleships, especially if they lack decent torpedoes, which doesn’t seem to be considered for their BR.
I can’t imagine how they’d actually work out, but 6v6 etc would be fine too.
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What they can do is make matchmaking +/- 2.0 even 3.0, but correlate probability with the BR difference (like a bell curve or sth)
They can do the same for air and ground too. It allows better representation of capabilities with BR without changing too much what enemies you meet
I barely did few big tasks for the BP this time. I don’t play for days, only to get disappointed by trying to catch up and getting a huge losing streak over and over again. The more I play the more losing streaks. This is not an accident. It’s some twisted, deliberate nerf. Soo many matches still continue to be 0 tickets to 95% losses. It’s unbelievable how this game sucks these days. I moved to planes and there more steamroll losses. Anywhere I go, the same suck. Yesterday, I think I played 7-8 matches and got just 1 win. Why even bother?
The funny thing is something like 10 days ago I had about 10 wins in a row. I activated 300% boosters for Naval and POOF a losing streak starts. 3x 300% boosters and 3 losses in a row with the enemy having most of the tickets left. Before the 10 wins streak I had something like a huge losing streak that always tends to last for a week or even multiple weeks. These swings are sickening and just prove that the game is fixing matches. You have very little influence for the outcome. If you start doing well, the game just infuses a bunch of new players in the middle of the match, tips the scale and you get steamrolled. No point of pushing forward, as the game will add new players and spawn them right in front of you Star Trek style. You are all battered and POOF 3 new players with 100% health.
Another fun factor was last night a match where enemy had 4x7.7 top br… while we had NONE. Our entire team was shifted down by .4 BR. Small teams, yet still top br is packed by 4 enemy players while we got a bunch of 6.7-7.0. The outcome was a total steamroll. This game has became a total joke.
Now with the servers problems I have a hard time finishing up the big task for the 8 nations. My last match was especially bad with server lags every few seconds. I couldn’t even get into a match, as the game was hanging. I lost 3 ships due to the game being non-responsive. I never lose 3 ships.
Everything sucks and Naval is in the worst state for the last 7 months. The game started going downhill 3 years ago and I just don’t see things getting any better. No premium time and no plans to renew anymore.
Yes, the multiple days away from the game make me feel less irritated. Every time I play I see major flaws in the game design that break it. What’s the point of even tolerating this anymore? The best time in Naval was around the 1st battle pass. Around 2-3 pass they started jacking up requirements for the tasks. It was still ok, but then they started screwing with aim 3 years ago and things went in a wrong direction from there. The totally screwed up aim recently took the cake. Even now, when enemy is behind some cover, I often see shots getting spread up all over the place except hitting the enemy. You cannot see a marker telling you what the enemy is doing. It’s just a guess work, so when enemy is changing direction and/or speed, the automatic aiming is slow to react.
Shells scatter all over the place. This was gaijin’s deliberate doing. Their stupid ham-fisted approach is failing. They increased the scatter due to top BR battleships, but now destroyers and cruisers have to suffer as well, especially in constant uptiers. All you can do is spray and pray. It made me fully disconnected from the game. There is no immersion anymore. It’s just synthetic click on some blurry mess in the distance. I just better save my time and my eyes. Years of staring into a blistering sun in the game and now everything is blurry and hazy all the time. So stupid…
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I don’t understand what you mean, or what sth refers to
however, having a 5.0 lineup facing 7.0 ships would be a complete nightmare - the maps just are not set up for this kind of gameplay
I mean more decompression
Are you surprised? “Naval mode is finally dead.” They are just nailing in last nails in the coffin with this.
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i sure do love screaming into the void
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Closed the day it was opened. It helps if you understand a system before you complain about it. The BRM’s comment was funny though.
The funny thing about this issue is that, even with the default belt on the USS Cyclone, I used to aim with the APDS shell when we had full manual control over our guns.
You could do that because it was all about making corrections. It was like making an extra correction on top of the standard correction.
The result was that the HEI-T shell would miss, but the APDS shell would hit the target. It was the only sensible way to use this default belt, especially at distances over 2 km. I even had a situation where I killed two enemies at once - when I aimed at one enemy boat with APDS shells, my HEI-T shells randomly hit another boat in a completely different position and killed it too, which was hilarious.
I’m not really surprised that, with the new automatic aiming system, Kweedko didn’t understand the problem with these guns. It’s a bit complicated and the default belt on the USS Cyclone was always broken. With manual aiming, at least you could correct for it and use APDS shells when needed.
In the current system, you don’t see exactly where your guns are aiming, so you’d have to adjust based on the APDS shell tracers (and ignore HEI-T tracers). This is tricky, especially since the automatic aim keeps changing where the shells land, so you have to constantly keep track of it. I suspect it’s now almost impossible to use this default belt the way I did with manual aiming in Naval Arcade.
Nowadays, it’s really better to test things like this in Naval Realistic, where you can actually fully control your guns. It makes it much easier to understand what’s going on with your guns and shells.
So I’m not trying to make fun of anyone here, it’s very easy to not understand what is going on. It really looks like something is seriously broken when you use this vessel with the default belt.
I suspect this whole issue can’t even be considered a bug. It would probably have to be suggested to remove the default belt that’s causing the problem. But even passing simple suggestions to the developers is almost impossible in War Thunder.
4 Likes
Oh there should definitely be a bug report by someone about any gun belt on any vehicle with differential MVs like that. It’d be an easy fix.
It was closed only cause i added datamine screenshot to the first one report. You can report it again, pointing out that cause of the problem is default belt with different bullet speeds which conflicting with aiming systems including RB one, where it stucks on 3km max as i stated in my report and that fact was ignored(I bet if you load HE belt you could aim further than 3 km with it) as was ignored my videos where clearly shows that after 2 km in AB, none bullets can reach the target on default belt.
I don’t report bugs nowadays because I’ve wasted a lot of time on it in the past, and I’m really tired of dealing with bug moderators in this game. I have much better things to do with my life.
In the game, these HEI-T shells have a 3 km auto-destruct range. War Thunder doesn’t use a realistic time-fuzed system, only distance fuzes. It’s unrealistic, but it is what it is.
This means the game ignores the time after firing and only counts the straight-line distance the shell travels. Once it reaches 3 km, the shell simply explodes. In reality, shells use a time-fuze, as tracking distance is too complicated.
Because War Thunder’s devs set the HEI-T shells to self-destruct at exactly 3 km, it’s impossible to hit targets beyond that distance with these shells, regardless of the belt. But the truth is that due to their high drag, I wouldn’t even use them above 2 km. They’re effective against targets 1-1.5 km away, but the farther the distance, the worse they perform - they simply travel too slowly.
I don’t see any videos from you. I just checked, and the default belt works fine in the test drive. In battle, however, it can feel like the belt isn’t working at all for the reasons mentioned above. HEI-T shells are too draggy to hit moving targets even at mid-range (2-3 km), and APDS tracers flying off into space can be confusing as well.
But once you understand the issues with the default belt, it actually works as intended:
Shooting at 2.7 km using HEI-T shells with the default belt.
Shooting at 2.7 km using APDS shells with the default belt.
As you can see, everything works fine. You can see how long it takes for HEI-T shells to reach the target (fortunately, it’s standing still). You can also see how big of a correction I have to make when using the default belt to hit the enemy even at 2.7 km with APDS shells. From what I remember, the correction used to be much smaller with manual aiming, and the tracers were also much more visible back then. Nowadays I probably wouldn’t even try aiming like that in battles.
The thing is, this default belt doesn’t make any sense in the current configuration.
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