yeah that’s true, as I said these sort of ships were strong. But do you really need break the fun instead of increasing BR? I saw a lot of Willkinsons brought to 5.0-6.0 lobbies and doing well enough
A lot of secondaries do this. The secondaries on the Litchfield and all the Brit 4.3-4.7 destroyers for starters.
It’s pure muzzle velocity. The Tiger secondaries are shooting at 1000m/s and the main guns at 800m/s at the same aim point. I talked about the math behind it in a post on the old forum (now sadly gone… speaking of things that are “finally dead”).
Here’s my diagram from that post though:
Note that’s against a stationary target, there is also horizontal displacement due to the differing shell velocities to consider as well. This is why for a lot of ships it’s better just to leave secondaries to the AI (where it may not fire, but at least it uses a correct aim point), or fire them yourself by toggling your own control while main guns are reloading.
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SO! I can agree on those points, my only issue then is that the Wilkinson is ONLY Rank II. Should have already gone up to Rank III imo. I’d be “ok” with it going up a little bit if they stopped ruining/nerfing mechanics like this.
Yeah, give me Rank III+, 0.3 BR higher, and give me muh massive increase to its SL % 😁 But restoration of the dual control of Main+Aux MUST come with a change like that. If this change stays…it needs to go down in BR, immediately.
Yeah, that is what I assume, though I cant think of any reason why it couldnt be fixed. Its not like the secondary guns cant hit that far.
Just the devs couldnt be bothered
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well I was concerned about Belfast. Let’s compare with Myoko, because I play both a lot.
Belfast: 841 m/s, 811 m/s
Myoko: 835 m/s, 720 m/s
Myoko’s secondaries are very accurate shooting in the same spot, while Belfast’s literally undershoot ~100m. I’m not sure there is some kind of independent aiming for secondaries as in-game mechanic, or atleast it is broken for some ships
If you look at the math, it would actually be fiendishly hard to fix without changing actual weapon characteristics. See my diagram above.
That’s just the static shooting math. For moving gun and target, the difference between the two aim points with different MVs changes dynamically (in this case ~0.4 degrees to offset a combined perpendicular to G-T line vector of 45 knots with two guns 200m/s apart, which is not impossible).
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Can’t speak for specific ships, but I tested this pretty extensively at the time. If you shoot primary and secondaries together they use the primary weapon’s aim point without factoring in any correction for secondary MV. It’s always been this way.
This is the real advantage of the change made in this update to me, that you can toggle the main-secondary merged aim point in real time without changing it in options settings (and maybe forgetting to change it back). So when I get on a Litchfield or a Haida, that tail-end secondary will not go where I want it to with the merged aim point, ever, so it’s best to just let the AI shoot it, but when that boat dies and I switch to a new boat with comparable main-secondary MVs I want to toggle back dual control again.
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every time I see SKR discussion and analogues, I never see HMCS Terra Nova, which is actually even a bit stronger in terms of raw firepower due to main gun not overheating at all. But most close equivalent I would say Alcione/Albatros. GB/Italy are just way less popular
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Shhhhhhh, don’t tell everyone about it 😅 But I do have to agree with you there, it is a little monster 😈 Also since it is a Coastal, it’s Rank V, “high” for its BR. I used it a bunch during the last Naval event, lots of task points 😁 I need to get the Albatros unlocked too here. Uggggg, Coastal grinds.
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In terms of lead, sure. But there are also issues with ranging as well, and those though, could easily be fixed.
The other option. Just make the AI gunners more accurate. Not even necessarily talking about high accuracy either, at the moment the hit chance can be between 0% and maybe 2-3%? Depending on the ship. Usually seems like sheer dumb luck if any rounds hit.
What if the AI would actually hit the target 10-20% of the time. Maybe higher for large ships?
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People complained it was too accurate and small boats couldn’t get anywhere near sneaking up to destroyers before, so it was ratcheted down so the PT boats had a chance.
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But thats the thing. In test drive at least and whenever in an actual match. PT boats are just dealt with by AA that is perfectly accurate. Rarely have to actually deal with them myself
Like on Tiger, the guns nail PT boats perfectly but then miss the destroyer by miles.
Just make it so that PT boats cant be targeted by secondary guns or better yet, vary accuracy by target type.
But I think the 3" guns for example on Tiger, shouldnt have a 0% hit chance against anything larger than a frigate.
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I was starting to think the problem was on my PC!
Regarding “secondaries” Bruce is correct, we have disgussed this somewere above I think.
They need to have separate fire calculation as it was in real boats.
Some boats have already modeled separate range finderders, GJ must undestand that these litle details are what makes ships different cause they give them various degree of fire accuracy.
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After ~2.5 km all big auxiliary guns start overshoot 300m by the script. You could test it in test sail by yourself. It was quick nerf after Aiming update cause of whine of boatlovers, before nerf even main guns on autofire were hitting targets 10+ km .
That would do it
True. If they’re going to have us roleplaying as a spotter after the AB aiming update, then they could just make it so you have to designate a target for your secondaries and AA manually before they start firing. It takes little effort, is easy to understand, and means you have to actually pay attention to the battle space. After all, AI air gunners don’t start firing until the enemy is already on top of you, and roof MGs on tanks don’t aim for you at all!
You can get a perfect attack vector on an oblivious larger vessel with a torpedo boat and still have your attack foiled within 4 km because the guy had his AA on. This is another reason why I don’t like or use the voicelines that tell you about incoming targets. Boats have become much more vulnerable since they were added to handhold players that for all intents and purposes should be punished for their lack of awareness and degree of setup required by the attacker.
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Like it used to be before the aiming changes! 😂 Or at least before the change you COULD force the AI to shoot at specific targets. Those keybinds are still there, they just don’t work. And “funny” enough, when you hit F1 those keybinds, descriptions, and instructions are still there too! 🤦♂️
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They actually working just icons don’t display, confusing player.
So I took out Myoko just to check, and it’s consistent with the other ships with differing primary/secondary MVs.
In a test sail, if you shoot at the farthest battleship (11.4 km), the main guns (835 m/s) take 19s time of flight, secondaries (720 m/s) take 33s. So obviously against other than a stationary target that’s not ideal if they’re fired together.
Also, the slower round does arc higher and hit the target higher. You can test this by firing at the Detroit cruiser in test sail, aiming at the top of one stack. The primaries fired with primary aiming will group with half or more hitting the ship. The secondaries, if fired with the primary aiming solution, will not only arrive quite a bit later, but mostly or all sail over the top of the stack, most rounds missing the ship altogether, as should be expected by their higher angle of incidence, and impact the water on the other side. Switch to secondary guns only and use that aim angle with the same stack as the target, however, and the secondary gun grouping WILL hit the ship.
The two MVs on the Belfast are close enough I’d expect them to land pretty close together if they’re aimed together and they are comparably much closer in the equivalent test sail test. But you’re right, the Belfast 4" shells do seem to perform less well aerodynamically, with a little more sink on the rounds compared to the 6". That’s not the MV-differential issue Tiger and Myoko have, it’s something else. It’s not straight aerodynamics either, as the 4" penetration degrades faster than the 6". Without looking at the datamine files, my bet would be the height of the 4" turrets from the water has been mis-set and they’re firing from a point of height ~ 0, which would probably produce this result.
(Note firing secondaries with primaries if the MV is different works the same in AB as RB, as the new AB aiming doesn’t do anything different with secondary shells fired with primary aiming. They’re aimed at the same aiming point primaries, and if nothing moves they’ll land in the same place but that still changes the angle of vertical incidence (which changes impact position on the target if you are shooting above the waterline) and the time of flight is still different, trashing the built-in lead calculation. Still better if the MVs are more than, say, 100m/s different, to always fire secondaries on their own or let AI do it unless you’re at close-quarter ranges.)
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They were not working and I also just tested and they do not.
You can’t specify target at least on test drive