actually they just brought this inline with Geniere, JDS Murasame and Zerstorer, which were “fixed” earlier, but what is the reason in the first place… just nerf all the fun
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Yeah, I dont see why any of them needed this nerf.
What is different about these ships?
You can fire the 4x 4" guns from Belfast’s secondaries at the same time, but tigers 3" guns are too OP?
Its wierd
btw didn’t you notice they are a bit bugged? like always short ~100m. Can’t remember now but same guns on some ships are accurate, while also bugged on others when I tested last time. Probably gonna report this
I did try reporting this before (on Tiger)
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/rnSDfwn8LV9H
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interesting, are there any other ships were you
anyway, it’s weird that same main/secondary combo behaves different on different ships
It was most pronounced on Tiger, which is why I reported tiger. The issue with a lot of other ships, was that I was too lazy to go into the settings everytime I swapped and so usually left them on AA with HE-VT ebcause they were generally more effective for that.
Only exception is Rodney and Barham with their 6" guns only good for naval targets and they always seemed fine.
With the ability to swap. I would be far more dynamic with it, but some of these changes… really put me off the gamemode
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Eh, I think the SKR-7 falls into exactly the same category 😉 I have both the Wilkinson and the SKR-7, both (before this massive nerf to the Wilkinson et al anyway) do about the same amount of damage. Are they going to push the SKR-7 up to 6.0 now instead of “nerfing” its guns? 😂 And the SKR-7 is at 4.3, but the Wilkinson is 4.7 lmao.
EDIT: Reply from Leon:
More replies:
yeah that’s true, as I said these sort of ships were strong. But do you really need break the fun instead of increasing BR? I saw a lot of Willkinsons brought to 5.0-6.0 lobbies and doing well enough
A lot of secondaries do this. The secondaries on the Litchfield and all the Brit 4.3-4.7 destroyers for starters.
It’s pure muzzle velocity. The Tiger secondaries are shooting at 1000m/s and the main guns at 800m/s at the same aim point. I talked about the math behind it in a post on the old forum (now sadly gone… speaking of things that are “finally dead”).
Here’s my diagram from that post though:
Note that’s against a stationary target, there is also horizontal displacement due to the differing shell velocities to consider as well. This is why for a lot of ships it’s better just to leave secondaries to the AI (where it may not fire, but at least it uses a correct aim point), or fire them yourself by toggling your own control while main guns are reloading.
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SO! I can agree on those points, my only issue then is that the Wilkinson is ONLY Rank II. Should have already gone up to Rank III imo. I’d be “ok” with it going up a little bit if they stopped ruining/nerfing mechanics like this.
Yeah, give me Rank III+, 0.3 BR higher, and give me muh massive increase to its SL % 😁 But restoration of the dual control of Main+Aux MUST come with a change like that. If this change stays…it needs to go down in BR, immediately.
Yeah, that is what I assume, though I cant think of any reason why it couldnt be fixed. Its not like the secondary guns cant hit that far.
Just the devs couldnt be bothered
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well I was concerned about Belfast. Let’s compare with Myoko, because I play both a lot.
Belfast: 841 m/s, 811 m/s
Myoko: 835 m/s, 720 m/s
Myoko’s secondaries are very accurate shooting in the same spot, while Belfast’s literally undershoot ~100m. I’m not sure there is some kind of independent aiming for secondaries as in-game mechanic, or atleast it is broken for some ships
If you look at the math, it would actually be fiendishly hard to fix without changing actual weapon characteristics. See my diagram above.
That’s just the static shooting math. For moving gun and target, the difference between the two aim points with different MVs changes dynamically (in this case ~0.4 degrees to offset a combined perpendicular to G-T line vector of 45 knots with two guns 200m/s apart, which is not impossible).
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Can’t speak for specific ships, but I tested this pretty extensively at the time. If you shoot primary and secondaries together they use the primary weapon’s aim point without factoring in any correction for secondary MV. It’s always been this way.
This is the real advantage of the change made in this update to me, that you can toggle the main-secondary merged aim point in real time without changing it in options settings (and maybe forgetting to change it back). So when I get on a Litchfield or a Haida, that tail-end secondary will not go where I want it to with the merged aim point, ever, so it’s best to just let the AI shoot it, but when that boat dies and I switch to a new boat with comparable main-secondary MVs I want to toggle back dual control again.
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every time I see SKR discussion and analogues, I never see HMCS Terra Nova, which is actually even a bit stronger in terms of raw firepower due to main gun not overheating at all. But most close equivalent I would say Alcione/Albatros. GB/Italy are just way less popular
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Shhhhhhh, don’t tell everyone about it 😅 But I do have to agree with you there, it is a little monster 😈 Also since it is a Coastal, it’s Rank V, “high” for its BR. I used it a bunch during the last Naval event, lots of task points 😁 I need to get the Albatros unlocked too here. Uggggg, Coastal grinds.
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In terms of lead, sure. But there are also issues with ranging as well, and those though, could easily be fixed.
The other option. Just make the AI gunners more accurate. Not even necessarily talking about high accuracy either, at the moment the hit chance can be between 0% and maybe 2-3%? Depending on the ship. Usually seems like sheer dumb luck if any rounds hit.
What if the AI would actually hit the target 10-20% of the time. Maybe higher for large ships?
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People complained it was too accurate and small boats couldn’t get anywhere near sneaking up to destroyers before, so it was ratcheted down so the PT boats had a chance.
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But thats the thing. In test drive at least and whenever in an actual match. PT boats are just dealt with by AA that is perfectly accurate. Rarely have to actually deal with them myself
Like on Tiger, the guns nail PT boats perfectly but then miss the destroyer by miles.
Just make it so that PT boats cant be targeted by secondary guns or better yet, vary accuracy by target type.
But I think the 3" guns for example on Tiger, shouldnt have a 0% hit chance against anything larger than a frigate.
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I was starting to think the problem was on my PC!
Regarding “secondaries” Bruce is correct, we have disgussed this somewere above I think.
They need to have separate fire calculation as it was in real boats.
Some boats have already modeled separate range finderders, GJ must undestand that these litle details are what makes ships different cause they give them various degree of fire accuracy.
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