Naval mode is finally dead

[_Poul]

@Dodo_Dud

I say that arcade naval aiming was counterintuitive before.

Old Naval Arcade aiming was never counterintuitive, you pretty much aimed at the point on water you wanted your guns to hit. But the new one definitely is, because you never know where your guns aim at specific time (and you have to make a correction based on that information you don’t have).

The old lead indicator sometimes was misleading, and that’s why you should follow the logic and physics, basically use your knowledge, skill and experience.

It works the same way with every lead indicator in every game mode. There are no perfect solutions, they are just small helpers that can even mislead you in some situations.

@Dodo_Dud

But then is is obvious why naval aracde aiming was considered inaccessible. It worked totally counterintuitive, it even gave the wrong clues AND it didn’t give hits.

You can say exactly the same thing about planes lead indicator, which I showed on the screenshot in my previous post.

@Dodo_Dud

That it even had glitches suggesting that it would do the other too.

I suspect this was a bug, but I can’t be sure what it was showing. Maybe there was some sense in it, I just never noticed. But if it was a bug, it should be simply fixed. It would be much easier solution than changing the entire aiming system.

But all this is speculation, because we know that there is no official information about the reasons why the devs changed this system. I seriously doubt this was changed due to the possible bug you mentioned. You can always PM me, there is no sense to speculate in this topic.

[Kweedko]

@_Poul

Old Naval Arcade aiming was never counterintuitive, you pretty much aimed at the point on water you wanted your guns to hit.

it wasn’t the point on water that you gonna hit cause it not compensated your own speed, that lead players to stand in place to compensate that

[Valconia]

After all these years they made moderate mode (bluewater/coastal) into utter garbage. I was playing bluewater and coastal with 6 players daily basis. Not even one want to play it now. I dont blame them… I am so infuriated of fact that these russian gaijin developers could screw things up that much. Do they recruited ubisoft developers or something ??? Queue is like 4 players while before patch it was ~60 players trying to play. How could they fu** this so much…

Unbelieveable

[rowZZ27-psn]

I can only guess that they ain’t bothered about existing players and they hope that because it’s so simple now ( in theory) , more people will try the mode , dunno …I just know that it is not for me as dumb gameplay is not enjoyable

[_Poul]

@Kweedko

it wasn’t the point on water that you gonna hit cause it not compensated your own speed, that lead players to stand in place to compensate that

What you are talking about is the inertia. The interesting thing is that we have inertia in all game modes, not just Naval. I know inertia can be hard to master, but once you get it, you can use this knowledge in other game modes as well.

For example, in Ground game mode when you move to the side and shoot at standing enemy at longer range, you can’t just aim at where he is, because you will miss. You have to make correction for the inertia of the shell, the same way you had to make this correction in old Naval Arcade.

This is physics, in reality it’s normal. Actually games that don’t include inertia are weird, because they don’t use the same physics we have in real life.

I can assure you that inertia can be learned in basically a few hours. I never had problems understanding it, but it was definitely making aiming more complicated when you were moving. But you can’t call inertia “counterintuitive”, it actually makes perfect sense if you understand the theory behind it.

[Kweedko]

@_Poul

For example, in Ground game mode when you move to the side and shoot at standing enemy at longer range, you can’t just aim at where he is, because you will miss. You have to make correction for the inertia of the shell, the same way you had to make this correction in old Naval Arcade.

That’s true, but in tank gameplay situations is like either you or your target move only moving are much more often, and ranges a far more close, and cause all of it you basically all the time see your target on the screen. In naval that’s not true, to aim you often need 1-2 screen sideways adjustment, shots fly way longer, and ranges on any of big map is way more so you cant aim in third person view.

@_Poul

I can assure you that inertia can be learned in basically a few hours.

i ain’t arguing with that.

I’m arguing with

@_Poul

you pretty much aimed at the point on water you wanted your guns to hit

[Dodo_Dud]

@_Poul

But you can’t call inertia “counterintuitive”, it actually makes perfect sense if you understand the theory behind it.

Again, it isn’t clear for the player. The game seemed to compensate for inertia in ships left/right, but not near/far. You could rely on the x coordinate but not the y.

[Rupert64]

the aimbot compensates left/right and distance of both target and you are at constant speed and bearing. The former system (maybe you related to that) indeed showed only the indicator to compensate left/right but NOT distance - this must be compensated by the player - but this was not so difficult to learn. I agree that some tutorial for new players would have been helpful

[Rupert64]

@Kweedko

In naval that’s not true, to aim you often need 1-2 screen sideways adjustment, shots fly way longer, and ranges on any of big map is way more so you cant aim in third person view.

I agree - but this happens only when both, you and target are on opposite course, a situation which not happens all the time - but instead of a aimbot some other solution for this may have been found. Implementing the aimbot for bluewater caused (for consistence) also the aimbot for coastals which never had a fire director for their light weapons. This was a fatal decision

[Dodo_Dud]

@Dodo_Dud

The game seemed to compensate

@Rupert64

former system

Yes

[VegasMofo]

@OwenHartEntrance

IN WHICH CASE I WONDER IF IT WAS EVEN GAIJIN’S DECISION AT ALL TO ADD THIS PATCH OR IF IT’S SOME KIND OF OVERSIGHT ENTITY ON GAMES AND THEIR IMPACT ON THE PUBLIC/SOCIETY.

I read all 400 replies to this thread as I am PISSED about this destruction of my favorite game mode in a game I have been grinding for 10 years.

But I think this right here nails it. It is not just War Thunder, but seemingly every game has been destroyed by design from the inside out. None of these changes are or us, in fact one would say they are all against us. Just trolling us?

Battlefield, Civilization, War Thunder, or just any game you used to love has been dismantled.
Some say “DEI hires” but is is clearly some crazy operation.

I noticed it when they started removing our abilities to easily voice chat in game, make connections, talk, play together, discuss things they do not want us talking about. THEY REMOVED TEAM PLAY!!! WT should be the biggest team game out there yet I have never had a “team”.

Then they started flooding the game chat with crap and false personas/identities to make you think it is the norm. I can’t say exactly what as it would be “hAtE SpeEcH” at this insane point.
It is not the norm but many will fall for it online. The virus spreads without XBOX 360 or CoD MW2 level voice chat to keep society in check.

I would bet at this point the only real goal of War Thunder is to get people to install Battle Eye on as many computer as possible. The root kit “anti cheat”. Surely some spy outfit tool. And not KGB.

Because the point is not for gamers to enjoyment, this we know. They are removing our enjoyment and community on all fronts.

As for this new aiming, it doesn’t even work for me. I was a PRO in NAB but now my shots are so random left random right random over random under and I can’t control them at all.

People on here pretending “it was too hard for noobs” are crazy it had a huge circle and told you over or under what was hard about that? You were able to manually adjust for a turn before the range updated because you knew how it worked. You were able to pinpoint fire.

Now my fire is random and I feel the game has selected me to make sure my shots do not hit if I do good. Not to mention how many random AI’s decided I am the only one worth attacking.

And sea plane caps? Gone. I would cap every single match from the start as that is a part of Naval and had many fun sea plane battles with enemy team but it is not possible anymore.

Bots were bad enough before when you had a bad team the other team had cap bots and you would lose like 15 matches in a row for some reason. I am sure it is rigged. But now bots kill you to make sure you can’t counter the fact that the game already picked a winning team.

Another thing is some bots might as well be terror of the ocean I get mad assist because they steal my kills somehow. Another cheat mechanic?

Anyways, maybe it is as simple as it is my fault for earning 80k-700k SLs a game depending on what booster I used.

Either way, I quit naval until they fix it.

I would play RB but on my controller I have to keep adjusting down with every shot until I am looking at the water in front of me. This is much more of a problem than they pretend AB had with not seeing a ship if you are both full speed opposite direction.

[comradecoates]

At certain BR’s you mix Bluewater and Coastal which after the new patch is insane. Destroyers will start engaging enemies 9km away. You now get blasted in your own boat spawn by a ship in their spawn without the ship player even knowing they were shooting at you.
Like the AA was with planes before, if it could see you and you were in range. Now everything is in range all the time.

Couple this with the aiming mess…
It locks onto whatever it wants, won’t let me lock anything else, wants me to click on the ship to hit there but shot lands where it feels like and by doing that does not “prepare” you for RB in quite the same way as Air AB “prepares” you for Air RB.

[SymphonyNo6]

I think the new NAB version does bring down the gap between some of the op enthusiasts & veterans and some of the shallow medium level captains. It’s not really that bad, but it would be better to allow players who are proud of whatever game time they have above to hit a higher ceiling. This would mean A combination of a reference point indicating the Z-axis or then the drop point (manual in the key settings), and the highlighted shell trajectory that NAB originally had I don’t know if it was activated by default. The old NAB mode of operation was a variant ui similar to Air Arcade’s advance, which is still visible in the NRB and isn’t exactly a ui look and feel worth hanging your hat on.
What you see isn’t what you get isn’t exactly screwing everything up, but maybe this post would have been less whiny if gaijin’s NAB designers had remembered the manual reference point markers, highlighting ballistics that they designed but didn’t enable, instead of reverting back to the last naval combat mode of operation (which the NRB didn’t have a previous suggestion for other than which drop ui to use) + the hidden landing fix.
Though I think the cap should also have people using op ships + bot more than enough luck by now, but I’m not sure what’s going on with the op ship environment since I haven’t played NAB for a long time. Also the arcade gains are lower than NRB and the damage isn’t that much higher looking, when is the whole limited return of last March’s fragmentation explosion mechanic going to make me feel good (or I’m getting second-guessed by a rain of shells and degrading my experience).
Of course I think it should still be map missions design, tutorials stuffed with high projection ships to lure the player to form a sea battle OODA thought, and then similar to the Snapper Gold box, throwing a rain of cannonballs to smash the enemy (whether bots or real life hostile player’s ship) for fun, although barring that, I used to be (separate ocean and near water) is also the PG02, the United States of America rapid-fire ship under the cannonballs of the soul of the dead French fries.

总结

这个论坛的中文区有没有人啊，快捷键类似discourse，我也不会用，话题目录（还是板块）不会用，感觉tag更是分区啊。海战体验激发了我的表达欲，但，感觉比贴吧人气低太多了

[SymphonyNo6]

I’ve also thought about it, and the first round that falls short in NAB’s new way is more likely to reflect test firing instead (of course I don’t have any kind of single turret test firing key set, not to mention that the observation of a direct long press on the fire button is something I’d like to switch off, but sadly there doesn’t seem to be an on/off option for it).
Perhaps the fact that the z-axis is not as accurate as the 2014 Антон Юдинцев air combat arcade pre-scanning circle is a consideration, and may still force the enjoyment of the new mode of operation to care about rubbing the enemy synthetic speed vector in relation to their own vehicle. However, this consideration is a bit useless, and the positive feedback for the player should be the enemy ships in the screen taking hits, a few shots in the enemy ship’s chaotic manoeuvres may be rewarded or punished, but it is more often the case in the high tier rooms (high tier >=br6.3), CV or BB with B~I~G turrents. Maybe there was once a time when the low tier oceanic and close water were not separated by lines and after the separation of the lines in the same BR room. Maybe there was a time when low tier DD’s non-rapid fire guns crushed small boats a bit, but it was the ‘crushing feeling’ that gave enough feedback, not the skill (e.g. Ammunition rack explosion). Most of the time, the x-ray analysis replay of the target carrier hit in the upper right corner was a time to confirm, while surgically accurate hits had to be developed and test-fired, or prayed for with the ship’s turret layout, and the enemy movement of the fallout scatter. I mostly make initial adjustments to the point of impact (generally have to get as close as 9km, or less, to split into a rough front-middle-rear that at ship level), and even closer to 4km is when the enemy meets their side, exposing area while the enemy is stationary, and possibly adding luck to be able to make a conscious strike at 10~13km. This is most likely to happen when the enemy forms a double vertical formation. The other thing is that the enemy to keep moving posture, I only rely on the game lock will be in the shift observation perspective to keep moving after clicking, or to see the shells fall on their own walk luck.
Erm, I’d be interested in trying the current mechanic if the NAB gains were good and the maps were strong, but it’s hard to say, and I’m quite critical of the current map pool.

[Dodo_Dud]

What?

[SilentTracker]

@Kweedko

In naval that’s not true, to aim you often need 1-2 screen sideways adjustment, shots fly way longer, and ranges on any of big map is way more so you cant aim in third person view.

@Rupert64

I agree - but this happens only when both, you and target are on opposite course, a situation which not happens all the time

GUYS, there is a keybind to adjust for horizontal. You can absolutely shoot in first OR third person at any range, at any speed if you simply adjust the horizontal.
It is the SECOND Distance correction in Naval controls. I am honestly shocked how many players don’t seem to know about this. It worked in old Naval Arcade Aiming, and works with Naval Realistic Aiming. Now, should Gaijin name them better, eg name one “Vertical” Correction and the other “Horizontal” Correction? Of course, but the setting has been there the entire time you have played Naval. This is why I test or search for info about every setting I don’t understand. I tested this one out when I first started playing Naval.

No horizontal adjustment:

Adjusted right:

Adjusted left:

[Dodo_Dud]

But why would you use this in arcade? You simply moved the impact predictor to where you wanted it.

[Kweedko]

@SilentTracker

GUYS, there is a keybind to adjust for horizontal. You can absolutely shoot in first OR third person at any range, at any speed if you simply adjust the horizontal.
It is the SECOND Distance correction in Naval controls. I am honestly shocked how many players don’t seem to know about this. It worked in old Naval Arcade Aiming, and works with Naval Realistic Aiming. Now, should Gaijin name them better, eg name one “Vertical” Correction and the other “Horizontal” Correction? Of course, but the setting has been there the entire time you have played Naval. This is why I test or search for info about every setting I don’t understand. I tested this one out when I first started playing Naval.

Almost no one use this useless thing. It was added when map were small and only destroyers were in game and no green “v” or circle as far as i remember. Can’t you when you 2 screen sideway cause it’s 2 screen away and you either not se the V or not see the gun point. Why waste time to adjust this thing when you can just shoot. On those distances where you can use it you easily adjust aim by the V. It fix nothing and don’t add nothing to gameplay.

[SilentTracker]

@Dodo_Dud

But why would you use this in arcade?

@SilentTracker

It worked in old Naval Arcade Aiming

Old Naval Arcade Aiming, totally irrelevant now in NAB.

[Dodo_Dud]

@SilentTracker

Old Naval Arcade Aiming, totally irrelevant now in NAB.

I know, my question refers to the old aiming in arcade.