Naval mode is finally dead

[Kweedko]

@FuegoTigre

War Thunder is a simulator. It started as a Flight Sim. It’s branched out into other vehicles. And it has accessable modes, like arcade, to get players comfortable with mechanics.

I know how it started, we expected battlefield and got CS, deal with it. Arcade is arcade(btw. even RB is arcade with struggles and unrealism), you not complaining about aim marker in planes or magic cross in tanks, you not complaining about hidden modules HP in ships and planes, or sound and models disappearance or vision aka small boats invisibility system. But you complaining that ship crew is aiming as they should.

@CptBolo

Hyuga that I’m trying to spade. The entire match was just fighting with the stupid aimbot. One broadside salvo would fall short, another would overshoot from around 11-12 km away on a death circle map.

Got no problem on a stock Huga with one 150 ping game and one with 7.0 , yes her guns a bit unprecise especially when high ping, yes peps turn more and doge more now. But there is no problem play her if you know what you doing.

Fact that sever crashed in the end of first game and all gains were lost, is way more disappointing.

[RoxySimp_and_LoonaCoomer]

Only Jets. Nuff said.

[CptBolo]

@Kweedko

Got no problem on a stock Huga with one 150 ping game and one with 7.0 , yes her guns a bit unprecise especially when high ping, yes peps turn more and doge more now. But there is no problem play her if you know what you doing.

You just started playing it. Well, you got a nice downtier. Eventually you will notice these strange matches in it when almost nothing works. All I get are matches up to BR 7.3 (due to jets), so it’s mostly battleships, including bots. Killing anything takes long time and I still get no assists most of the time (got just 1 tonight… I’m supposed to get 49 more to get the special task done, good luck with that smh). Yes, you can kill with it (have 70 kills and 3 deaths), but the problem is the uneven gameplay where I seem to be nerfed in different matches. The match before the mentioned one I got a first place in Frank Knox, win and total wipeout of the enemy team (usually I’m on the wiped out team). This is as if the game is overcompensating. Funny thing is I get many more ammoracks on cruisers with Soviet cruiser Volorhilov than with a battleship such as Hyuga.

Played another match tonight. It’s interesting how the shells fall all around the ship and many times not hitting it lol.

Couple of days ago I was getting disconnected multiple days in a row, including first match of the day when I just logged in. Very annoying, especially when you use a 300% booster.

[Rupert64]

this weekend I played a few matches using the british battle-class destroyers Tobruk and Armada. Both have their ammo storage above waterline and are very sensitive for ammo explosions even prev. to the aimbot update. But now they are unusable - often they are killed just out of spawn due to the now precise targetting. This includes also the prem. Cadiz which is of the same class.
So I changed them by the Diana/Daring destr. at the same BR.
Also using planes is still much more difficult - human players can also target them from far distance, prev. the lead marker was shown only at low distance. Its so a massive nerf to aircrafts which was not needed!

[Kweedko]

https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/r4JFya3xf2Dg
today minor patch completely boke all NAB aiming @Technical Moderators

[hidehide718-psn]

The current naval AB targeting system is just awful.
AI players and automatic fire are too strong for boats, aircraft, destroyers and other light armored vehicles.
We also don’t need a system that fires at the surface of the sea when hitting an enemy hiding behind an island, which used to be possible.
We need to go back to the old system now!

[_Poul]

@Kweedko

today minor patch complete boke all NAB aiming

I don’t play Naval anymore, but from pure curiosity I checked this in the Test Sail, and it doesn’t look like “broken aiming” to me.

It actually looks like the next step to make aiming fully automatic in Naval Arcade.

The previous change solved the “aiming problem” for players, who didn’t know how to aim.
This particular change solved the “aiming problem” for players, who didn’t know where to aim (which part of the vessel).

For example, the AI is even better in killing boats now:

Spoiler

https://youtu.be/cg0KUILlMaM

It shot the front section first, and then the rear section. Nice and easy kill by just pressing 2 buttons (select enemy and fire). I didn’t even have to move my mouse.

Against Destroyers it gets even more interesting:

Spoiler

https://youtu.be/cFWz2_0Zmb8

You can see even though I don’t move my mouse even an inch, the AI is fully automatically aiming at enemy guns/engine areas. The funny thing is, before the aiming change I would shoot the same areas. The only difference is, I would shoot slightly lower than the AI, but these areas are the “weakspots”.

Anyway, that was good enough for the AI ​​to fully automatically explode enemy ammunition, and that’s actually impressive! With fully automatic aiming, newer players don’t have to know where to aim anymore. The AI ​​seems to be targeting enemy weakspots very well.

Of course I’m not sure if this aiming change will stay. But there is a logic in it, it’s not “random shooting”. It looks more like a test for fully automatic aiming in Naval Arcade. I’m not saying this system is perfect. I’m just saying it makes sense, because it’s very newbie friendly. It doesn’t matter where you point your crosshair, you will always hit enemy weakspots automatically (assuming the enemy won’t change their course).

The funny thing about this change is that all the arguments people used to defend simplified aiming works for this change too. If you want to aim manually, just play Naval Realistic. Naval Arcade should be for new players, who don’t have to understand how or where to aim. So why not introducing the system that does everything for the player? The player’s job right now is to press two buttons: select an enemy and fire. And this could be even simpler if you have automatic enemy selection turned on in options (if I remember correctly, it’s turned on by the default). Then you only need one button to hit enemies. Your mouse cursor position doesn’t matter anymore, the AI will shoot at the enemy weakspots for you, which is great from the new players perspective, right?

BTW: With this aiming change, I strongly suggest to fire guns independently. This way the AI will nicely spread the damage over the different enemy weakspots, maximizing possible crew damage.

[Rupert64]

so there is only missing one final step - the automatic selection of target (customizable nearest/dangerous) and auto-shooting…

[_Poul]

I don’t think there is any sense to simplify this even more, but it’s possible of course.

Currently Naval Arcade works like some players in this topic wanted. In terms of aiming, you become more like a ship captain. By pressing the left mouse button, you give gunners permission to shoot at enemies. Captain don’t tell gunners “aim for that destroyer ammo rack”, he just gives permission to fire at the target. The accuracy of gunners depends from their experience. Releasing the left mouse button is now like saying “hold your fire” by a captain. That’s basically how aiming currently works in Naval Arcade. That’s exactly what some players wanted.

Your cursor position is completely ignored. You can look around to find next targets, you can do whatever you want with the camera. As long as you press that left mouse button, the AI will accurately shoot at enemy weakspots for you.

BTW: Keep in mind, I have maxed Naval crew skills on all my slots. I’m not sure if that affects this new fully automatic aiming accuracy or not, but I think it’s worth to mention this.

[Rupert64]

@_Poul_

That’s exactly what some players wanted.

yes but the majority (in this forum) disliked it.
My prev. remark on the final step was meant more sarcastic then serious…

[_Poul]

@Rupert64

yes but the majority (in this forum) disliked it.

I’m not saying that the devs made this change because of minority of players wanted it on the forum. I only mentioned this, because the same players now complain about this change, that it’s “too simplified”. But this change actually makes sense.

Ok, so look at this:

• New fully automatic aiming change example

I’m not even looking at the enemy destroyer, I just keep pressing my left mouse button and I still explode the enemy ammo! You can’t really get easier than this.

You can look around, you can find next targets. You are more like a captain now. And your gunners are crazy accurate (not sure if that’s because of my crew skill levels or it works like that for all the players).

To be honest, I can ammo rack enemies much more often than before. This could be related to recent fire changes. I don’t play Naval anymore, so I don’t know how these changes affected the gameplay.

Anyway, you can see how easy it is now to explode enemy ammo rack. I don’t even have to look at the enemy, I only select the enemy vessel, then press the left mouse button and the AI will do everything for me. Players don’t even have to place their mouse cursors at the enemy. And somehow it makes sense, this is consistent with all the simplifications the devs added to Naval Arcade in last months.

@Rupert64

My prev. remark on the final step was meant more sarcastic then serious…

I know you weren’t serious, but to me personally the devs direction is very clear. They are trying to make Naval Arcade very, very, very easy to play. I don’t know why, but it’s not something that happened with the last major update. This is the direction they took a long time ago for whatever reason. So this change, where your gunners automatically aim for weakspots, makes sense if you think about this. It’s like the next step.

The funny thing about your sarcasm is, it’s possible that this system will be simplified even more in the future. Like you said, it’s possible to e.g. select the nearest enemy automatically for you. It would be weird, but knowing the devs and their changes, I can’t deny this possibility completely. Imagine how the game will look like when everything will be automatic. You will watch how the game is played by AI for you.

[Kweedko]

@_Poul_

You can see even though I don’t move my mouse even an inch, the AI is fully automatically aiming at enemy guns/engine areas. The funny thing is, before the aiming change I would shoot the same areas. The only difference is, I would shoot slightly lower than the AI, but these areas are the “weakspots”.

It’ much simpler than you think, it just AI aiming tweak for random spot aiming got out of control, probably cause new NAB aiming use same codebase and person who made changes doesn’t understand all of dependencies.

Here Ronanok AI controlled 76mm guns shooting - system choose an random module for each turret and aim in it and change it once in a while, before when it always been one spot now .

[Bruce_R1]

This is why the people saying “it’s fine, it’s just changing the aim point” were out to lunch.

If it’s introducing offsets to target ship systems the AI picks, but you still try to change the aim point yourself to also snipe systems, you’re working at cross purposes to the game in AB now.

It could be problematic to RB as well if they extend this increased accuracy to all gaijinbots there too, though.

[_Poul]

@Kweedko

Here Ronanok AI controlled 76mm guns shooting - system choose an random module for each turret and aim in it and change it once in a while, before when it always been one spot now .

This only reminds me that you don’t have enough experience in the game mode.

These 76 mm guns use pure HE shells, and you have to aim differently with them to be effective. The screenshots you posted is exactly how you should shoot with these guns! You destroy modules on the deck. This is the most efficient tactics with these guns, and now the AI does this fully automatically for you.

BTW: If you want, you can check my YT channel. Look how I played with pure HE shells. I did exactly the same you showed on your screenshots, because this is the META to use these shells. The only difference is that now the AI does this for you, so you don’t have to move your mouse left and right across the entire enemy ship. So every player (new or experienced) is now equal in Naval Arcade, thanks to this fully automatic aiming. You no longer need to understand how everything works.

[Rupert64]

@Kweedko

person who made changes doesn’t understand all of dependencies.

this maybe the root cause of all problems in naval arcade since last 6 months…

[Rupert64]

@_Poul_

You will watch how the game is played by AI for you

poor botting coders are jobless now

edit: simplifying arcade widens the gap to RB even more - or is the aim to “force” experienced arcade players to go to RB? IDK

[Oni-chan-Yamete-kudasai]

I came back to the post to say: The mode really is dead.

[Kweedko]

@_Poul_

This only reminds me that you don’t have enough experience in the game mode.

@_Poul_

BTW: If you want, you can check my YT channel. Look how I played with pure HE shells.

Nice bait mate.

Meanwhile

[Rupert64]

incredible short time to fix - did you tried if it works now?
if one of us non-russian players make a bug report its mostly either closed as “no bug” or they want ridicoulos additional information. The torpedo bug on german and japanese vessels still exists after months.
congrats to your “fast lane”

[Kweedko]

@Rupert64

incredible short time to fix - did you tried if it works now?

we still on 2.45.1.48 yet

@Rupert64

if one of us non-russian players make a bug report its mostly either closed as “no bug” or they want ridicoulos additional information. The torpedo bug on german and japanese vessels still exists after months.
congrats to your “fast lane”

i PMed to two known technical moderators and marked it here with @ so probably something of this worked