Naval Forces re-work [Merging Coastal/Bluewater again | Separating Modern Vessels from the WW2 onces | Addressing the balance between Planes and Ships]

[FRE_STYLE]

I am talking about realistic man . I play RN

[Kweedko]

Most of what i told you is same in Realistic.

[FRE_STYLE]

Dude ı dont know u but whenever ı find match with opensea map match turns deathmatch .

[Kweedko]

It’s a deathmatch game don’t you know?

[FRE_STYLE]

Buddy there is no tactic or something just shoting each other from spawn .

[Kweedko]

There is a tactic in Arcade.

[super_cacti]

@FRE_STYLE

The maps are too small for battleships; as soon as you spawn, it becomes a game of bombarding from one side to the other, and tactics and similar things become irrelevant, which greatly harms the gameplay.

My problem with Naval maps is not so much the size, but more the lack of more islands and obstacles. I like the close up battles more, so I would prefer to be able to sail around a bit without the whole enemy team having a clear line of sight towards me.

@FRE_STYLE

Rocket ships and WW2 era ships in the same match; this is not very good competition, frankly, these vehicles should compete with their equals.

Yeah exactly. This problem is how I started this re-work idea xD
My first goals was, how do I get these modern ships out of my WW2 games!

@FRE_STYLE

Encountering cruisers while playing as a destroyer or something similar. This shows that the matchmaking system for these vehicles really needs fixing. And same goes with boats against destroyers .

I think this problem will get fixed if we just get more ship classes that sit in between the onces we have ingame at the moment.
Right now it goes from Destroyer > Light Cruiser > Heavy Cruiser > Battleship.

I think it should go more like Destroyer > Protected Cruiser > Light Cruiser > Armored Cruiser > Heavy Cruiser > Pre-dreadnought > Battleship.

I just want to see more of the old ship classes that could form a good bridge between the existing ships.

[FRE_STYLE]

@super_cacti

Right now it goes from Destroyer > Light Cruiser > Heavy Cruiser > Battleship.

I think it should go more like Destroyer > Protected Cruiser > Light Cruiser > Armored Cruiser > Heavy Cruiser > Pre-dreadnought > Battleship.

I just want to see more of the old ship classes that could form a good bridge between the existing ships.

Yeah exactly .

[LeMorbidDeath]

Forgot to add: Remove auto aim. Or at the least make it optional.

[Kweedko]

@super_cacti

My problem with Naval maps is not so much the size, but more the lack of more islands and obstacles. I like the close up battles more, so I would prefer to be able to sail around a bit without the whole enemy team having a clear line of sight towards me.

They removed a lot of islands maps from 6.3+ rotation or replaced them with bigger variants like for Frantz Yosef Land(old version was way better) after Leviathans update. And with decompression they never adjusted up BR brackets of the maps creating mess up matchmaking. Also some maps were just excluded from the matchmaker at all like Black Sea Port, South Africa, Aleutian Islands and Southern Kvarken, stripping variety of the maps in rotation.

Naval matchmaking need some improvements

Several easy improvements to naval battle matchmaking, what could be done to enrich player experience: Return small map variants (from before where spawn points were pushed back) to the rotation for low Battle Ratings (BR 6.3 and below). Return to rotation the maps that were completely removed: South Africa, Black Sea port, both variants of Southern Kvarken in Domination mode, Aleutian Islands for large ships, Southern Kvarken and Aleutian Islands in Encounter mode, as well as Southern Kva…

[jon_man1199]

@super_cacti

Right now it goes from Destroyer > Light Cruiser > Heavy Cruiser > Battleship.

I think it should go more like Destroyer > Protected Cruiser > Light Cruiser > Armored Cruiser > Heavy Cruiser > Pre-dreadnought > Battleship.

Honestly, I think setting it up like this probably causes more problems than it’s worth. Especially if/when we start getting ASM-equipped ships. Under this system, you have to ask where the heck Gaijin ends up putting them. My solution would be to look at the tank trees for inspiration and have every line be a type of ship.

[super_cacti]

I think you might have missed one point of my actual suggestion.

@super_cacti

Step 2, the “Modern fleet”

Here is where we introduce something completely new.

We’ve got a smaller naval techtree which branches of from the regular naval tree, just like Helicopters do from the ground and air techtree.
The way you unlock this “Modern fleet” is by unlocking either Rank III naval, or Rank V aviation.

This new naval techtree specifically includes only modern vessels. Vessels with radar, modern guns, missiles, you name it.

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And most importantly, this “Modern fleet” has it’s own matchmaker!

They cannot join any battles people have with the regular naval techtree!

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Another thing worth noting is the BR range I’ve setup here. We can see that the first vessels you get start at a BR of 6.0. So now your modern vessels will sit at a BR which is much more realistic. Guided missiles can be added in full to all these modern ships. They no longer fight WW2 stuff, so for balance sake it’s become much easier to implement.

Something that you can see in the illustration above is that I pointed out the Italian cruiser Garibaldi (1961 refit). This is a WW2 light cruiser which got most of it’s older weaponry replaced with more modern weapons, and anti air missiles. These very interesting modern cruisers will now have their very own spot in this “Modern fleet”. If they were to be put into the current Bluewater fleet, then it’s very messy since they really lack in primary weaponry to fight other cruisers. But they have powerfull 76mm Oto Melara secondaires which will destroy any small ship that dares comes near. So either the BR for it would be to low and it’s stupidly overpowered, or it’s to high and it’s straight up useless.

So again, having them in their own “Modern fleet” techtree makes much more sense.

Also, light cruisers like the Belfast, Tiger, Chapayev and Sverdlov are also modern light cruisers. So technically these could go into the “Modern fleet” too!

Fun little thing, technically even the USS Iowa in it’s 1984 refit could be added into this techtree. It is modern after all, but it would be one of, if not the only, battleship in the “Modern fleet”.

My reply to FRE_STYLE was strictly talking about a matchmaker with no modern ships in it. So all the missile and modern stuff would be of somewhere in their own matchmaker, and all the whole “Destroyer > Protected Cruiser > Light Cruiser > Armored Cruiser > Heavy Cruiser > Pre-dreadnought > Battleship” progression is for the “WW1 - WW2” techtree and matchmaker.

If we look at the naval setup as it is right now ingame then I will agree with you and say, where the hell are the missile armed ships suposed to go.

[Kweedko]

@super_cacti

My reply to FRE_STYLE was strictly talking about a matchmaker with no modern ships in it.

Not gonna happen, just cause in plane gunfight and armoring early ASW ships is easily overpowered by old ships which served in same time as ASW ones, in current ingame conditions. So gatekeeping them not only make them hard to obtain but even more unpopular which is counterproductive.

[CharAznable3]

I think a solution for coastal is like what we did with helicopters where you can grind out a helicopter by playing ground this could be a solution for coastal but with blue water. With the addition of subs we are likely to see them just being in the blue water tree but there is a high possibility of coastal , midget, & special forces subs going in the coastal tree. People will likely want to see the Biber in game just not be forced to grind the Biber.

[Kweedko]

It’s a very unwise solution, it will not make costal more popular. But only fulfil the urge to own them, but not play them.

[CharAznable3]

I just don’t know how Coastal can be more engaging as the reason why Gaijin did this was people did not want to play a motor torpedo boat though there could be useful vehicles in there esspecally with subs coming. Also with future of missile ships a coastal boat with 4 anti-ship missiles can punch above her weight class.

If you land a hit with a missile plus less of a radar cross section you can do a lot.

One savor of Coastal might be bringing naval into nuke mode and having map targets that a torpedo / gunboat is better suited to the task then a plane.

[supersaiyan9751-live]

I mean doing this may kill naval even more tbh but considering top tier naval is nearly dead(you know why), sure why not.

[Kweedko]

Costal could be more engaging if properly incorporated in big boats fight not just CP thieves. Examples are:

1. Add Costals 3.3- to EC frights.
2. Add PT swarms or corvette groups instead of controlling just one boat in 5.7+ fights.
3. Add more spawns like 3 on big ships + 3 on small ships.
4. Additional closer spawns for slow frigates and corvets.
5. Allowing PT spawn on big ships respawns.

[super_cacti]

The way I see it, putting modern ships in their own matchmaking away from WW2 era battleships will only make the gameplay for them more fun. You won’t have to deal with heavily armoured battleships which your modern missiles won’t be great against.
Keeping the modern stuff together with the WW2 ships makes them suffer more in my opnion, and so no body wants to play them.

[super_cacti]

Something like that might work yeah. But would people then also actually play them once they unlock them? xD
I’ve got a couple of “top tier” coastal ships, and I cannot recommend them. To me they are not fun to play against much larger WW2 era ships