why tf do we need to take every last thing off a “realistic” gamemode that makes it somehow skill dependent just so you can play without arcade markers? You want arcade aiming, play arcade. Its not that hard. If you dont like the arcade markers, suggest for them to get removed IN ARCADE. The game doesnt always have to cater to the lowest common denominator.
RB aiming is fine, though surely could be worked on.
Will you ask for gunner camera being in the barrel as well because you dont like ground RB cornerpeeking in third person so now sim needs to be changed and cater to what youd wish the gamemode to be?
Or give arcade mobility modifiers to vehicles because you dont like the ground arcade scouting mechanic and people shooting across the whole map and whole forests? Change the scouting in arcade, dont turn realistic into some little more “challenging” arcade,
The markers do basically nothing and holding down lock target in naval RB while looking around does basically the same like the arcade markers. it will lock any ship you briefly move the camera over. Sometimes even if they are fully behind islands and theres no way you should be able to get a firing solution for a ship you cant even see.
D-Day would be cool too. Infantry and supporting tanks storming the beaches, Allied ships supporting them with shore bombardment, Allied airforces triking key points.
German infantry fiercely defending, while awaiting Panzer reinforcements, Luftwaffe trying to intercept and a Kriegsmarine fleet trying to disrupt the invasion altogether.
I’d prefer not. It’d be no fun for tanks to get shelled from 5 km out, nor would it be fun for them to be bombed by aircraft, which they already have to suffer to in GRB.
As for aircraft in Naval, they can suffer like they already do.
Except in aircraft or tanks, you aren’t fighting the interface to actually do anything. That’s the difference.
Asking for arcade to lose its markers is a fool’s errand. Meanwhile I am hardly the first person to complain about the RB aiming system being wet dogshit, therefore since suggesting that change is far more common sense I am asking for that.
You mean camera from actual tank gunner’s sight? I suppose I wouldn’t mind seeing that in RB if only to make intentional barrel-shooting borderline-extinct. But frankly I’d rather just make cannon barrels immune to all damage given they already phase through objects and terrain - it removes the “barrel” part of “track-&-barrel torture” that makes fighting SPAAG so frustrating.
I would not give arcade mobility modifiers to anything in Realistic. I would, however give the lead indicators to SPAAGs, tank commander pintle-mounted MGs, all Heavy Flak TDs, and all SPHs with significantly shorter ranges. 0-1km for bone-stock crew, up to 1.6km for an aced one, based on the Rangefinding skill. The goal there is to make SPAAG less frustrating to use against CAS that isn’t completely braindead flying straight at your SPAAG.
They do some things, most notably render any attempts to surprise bigger ships with PT boats almost worthless because the red markers are seen across the map. Even though the entire DD class was created specifically to guard giant battleships from PT boats because they were so effective.
Basically I only suggest very specific situations where a mechanical port could be useful to solve a problem I am in no way, shape, or form the first person to bring up.
Nobody likes their shots flying all over the place or fighting the interface just to hit something.
Nobody likes getting their cannon barrel melted by an AA they should be able to obliterate if it weren’t for that built-in cheat.
Nobody likes hearing “don’t like CAS, then spawn SPAA!”, actually doing so, and still getting mauled repeatedly by planes or at best trading with them, while getting vilified for daring to kill a tank or few while waiting for CAS to show up.
And I doubt anyone likes an entire class of naval vessels built for sneak attacks being rendered near-useless due to marker mechanics.
And that is what map design is for. If the tanks have places to hide and call for air support to deal with a ship they have no ability to even think of dealing with, then it works.
Nah man, no vehicle class automatically “deserves to suffer” just because you or I happen to not like it. For example - I cannot for the life of me figure out how to fly helicopters correctly to try doing those funny unguided rocket runs. But do people who enjoy that deserve a place in the game where that can be useful? Absolutely.
I only suggest mechanical ports from different game modes to solve problems in other ones.
You see the obvious potential just like I do here. The variations are literally endless. And for the most part the game already has the necessary assets to build such, but only needs to reassemble them in specific ways.
Jesus. So you want a system thats aiming for you in Realistic because simply spamming at planes doesnt automatically kill them?
What is realistic about having a lead marker in spaa that doesnt have radar to calculate a lead marker?
If that CAS isnt completely braindead flying at your spaa then hes usually not a threat to your spaa? At least not with guns. So theres usually 0 necessity to spam at a plane that is too far away, dodging or too fast to hit. Thats called trigger discipline.
U can play spaa with a leadmarker though. Guess where
Uh ok. Lets make barrels not have a hitbox. because it will get hit by skilled players and that gives lots of tanks that have 0 chance to pen lots of other tanks frontally at least some chance vs them.
So your takes are basically all: i dont like this situation because i got outskilled or outsmarted at one point so lets just remove the hitbox or the mechanic that got me killed?
Gotta agree with making it so its somehow a bit easier to sneak up on big ships though. You basically never pull that off vs a battleship with lots of aa as long as hes got his aa set to attack ships. And thats independent from the scouting perk btw, at least in the cqc combat that i think you are talking about
Not aiming for me. Just showing where to shoot only when the plane is close enough to bother practically engaging.
The point here is to put down a longstanding community pissing war that’s been ruining the entire game for years. If people complain about CAS, intentionally make its counters easier to use until the bitching stops, to where nobody has an excuse to complain. 7.3-9.0 tanks already show us it works when everyone has Radar AA - all I’m doing is extending that same concept to lower ranks with a much shorter range for the lead marker showing up.
Some people will not be reasoned with regarding how CAS functions, therefore the only option left is to make said irrational folk utterly irrelevant instead, to where their insistence “to use just tanks” becomes their personal liability instead of an excuse to keep nerfing aircraft weaponry.
Ah yes, except in Arcade planes are temporary minigames you can’t bring from your own deck. Also, I’m not asking for bright red markers - just the lead indicator alone.
Barrels already clip through terrain and solid objects - making them immune to being shot at makes them consistent in being omniscient. And “rendering some things frontally immortal” is also partially the point. If something throws away all its functional mobility for armor and sometimes firepower, it should be frontally immortal except to purpose built derp cannons. For example the T95.
The other reason is another portion of the “CAS vs Tanks” pissing war. Gun SPAAG have very short effective ranges against CAS. CAS congregates in the middle of the maps well away from spawn zones. Yet average players have demonstrated for years they will not learn to move outside their spawn zones unless they can also shred tanks with their AA.
Thus I propose something “unconventional” - embrace tankbusting AA instead of vilifying them, but remove abusive and overly frustrating mechanics in the process. Hence the suggestion to make barrels immune is a deliberate part of this. If you use a vehicle which is frontally armored enough to shrug off an AA, that AA can no longer prevent you from killing him unless you whiff your shot. Same with the IFV plague from 8.0+.
Nope. My suggestions are “feature has problems, clearly what has been tried to make them less problematic isn’t working, therefore I propose something different that has yet to be tried.”
Naval in general is pretty damn unpopular, for many reasons. One of those however is undoubtedly the aiming system in RB.
Not only would I strip the markers, but I’d strip AI gunners from all non-Arcade modes altogether. If you aren’t paying attention to your immediate surroundings or the sky above you should pay the price for such. No differently than the other modes operate.
Snail just cannot make AI that’s a functional middle ground. Either they’re Terminators or they suck glue, so given that choice the latter is always better than the former.
Maybe other modes doing it wrong? Maybe you should understand that ship crew it’s not the tank crew. In naval you already paying price being bombed and having to evade or die.
If tanks AA machineguns being able to be controlled by AI, talkies will complain less that CAS chock them much. If bombers gunners could lead and shoot at longer distances - bombers ain’t not gonna be such an easy targets.
What war thunder is doing wrong is forcing player do all by himself even where there are bunch of people acting in groups IRL and doing separate work.
Snail has proven time and time again they are incapable of making balanceable AI anything. Cracked AI gunners render planes completely useless. Making AI gunners lobotomized to where they hardly hit anything makes them not worth using period. Hence my suggestion to remove them entirely.
And note, I am equally in favor of removing AI gunners from all bombers, attackers, and all AI-controlled versions of either. Because again Snail is incapable of making anything in between Terminators and Vegetative State for AI.
And if you are tunnel-visioned in an artillery duel with someone else, why should a plane be guaranteed to die if they happen to attack you because Snail made AI gunners cracked and refuses to figure out how to make them somewhere in between Terminators or sucking glue?
Therefore, if they need to be nerfed to the point of sucking glue to make playing aircraft in Naval worthwhile, you may as well remove them.
In exchange for this, however, I would instead make it far easier to aim the gunners at aircraft manually.
No, the last thing we need is more cracked Gaijin AI lasering everything even when the pilot isn’t paying attention. What should be done instead is removing the artificial dispersion of plane gunners so that they are easy to aim successfully under manual control.
Again, Gaijin is incapable of making AI somewhere in between cracked and sucking glue.
Nah, they have three of their own mode where they can do the thing. It’s called air arcade, realistic and sim battles. They 100% deserve being smacked out of the sky in Naval where the mode is about ships.
I might not like warthunder’s flight model but that doesn’t affect my dislike for fighters, attackers and bombers. People insisting aircraft be in freaking everything as the showrunner does.
I really don’t think they are capable of making AI that isn’t one or the other extreme. Suppose you give it a “delay,” but what use is that “delay” if the AI is still operating on Arcade marker logic and thus can see you from much further than a normal player would. Thus by the time you get into useful ranges, there is no difference.
Air RB shows what would be “needed” to make AI gunner logic not stupid - the BTR-152 trucks on the pillbox clusters (as well as other AAA units on maps like Ruhr) fire in short bursts roughly once every two or three seconds. These are functionally useless and only kill the dumbest of the dumb. They were modeled this way after the prior iteration of the things were lasering people 3km up, as we also see now with cracked AI Radar SPAAGs in Nuclear Escalation.
Remove the fucking AI gunners entirely. There literally is no middle ground Snail has actually proven themselves capable of reaching.
I would sooner see the game modes converge into being just one unified mode for every unit type, intentionally retiring all the split game modes in the process. Then the “but its a mode for X vehicle type!” no longer applies because there no longer are split modes.
All this game truly needs is one genuinely good game mode that works for all vehicle types. Right now we have a bunch of barely passable beta test-style modes.
And why are you talking about how the navy should be structured in the game—in a thread about the navy—when you have around 100 battles played with it?
But the problem is not the game here. You are complaining even without understand the gamemode.
I can understand that you like PVE, but its you like this, I think that you need to make your own PVE mission with CDK.
Also, if you want to perform in naval and understand RB system, here a tutorial from Dollarplays.
Also, if you like AB aiming system, why dont you play AB ?
You have only 66 AB battles !
This is not an ashaming message, but its to help you.
If anything, maybe add distance correction (read; game says ‘shot was off by .xx km’ so you can correct it for next salvo and no, not in the little radar icon) but that’s as far as I’d be willing to change it; I think it’s fine as is otherwise.
