I think gaijin need to add more PVE objectives and reward players.
In the old EC, If you target AIs from mission with ships you do not earn SP.
But, if you use plane to destroy those same targets, you earn like 150SP.
Why such difference ?
Gaijin need to rebalance those PVE and reward players. Instead of breaking naval EC…
EC was the sole reason and purpose for playing War Thunder’s naval mode. I don’t want to play random battles against bots just to end up playing against bots in EC. Now there is no goal here, no endgame.
Why is suddenly everyone claiming that the only thing that made EC EC is the extreme forced unbalance there was between ship classes?
There are still convoys
There are still carriers
There are still airfields
There are still aircraft missions
There are still ports to capture
There are still coastal artilleries
Maps are still the largest ever
EC is still EC
The ONLY thing that changed is that you no longer need to spawn tiny boats to be bullied by bigger ones for an uncomfortably long time until you somehow can manage to get enough SP to spawn a useful ship, a situation that gets only worse and worse if you dared join an ongoing match, which was sometimes the only choice when the only one you could join after 15 minutes of queue time was one of the only 1-2 matches being played in all of Europe that day.
EC is still EC, except I no longer have to endure 40 minutes of spawning Emdens in vain only to be obliterated by Mogamis, Scharnhorsts, Kronshtadts, Yamatos, Iowas and Soyuzs.
EC is still EC, except I no longer spend more time staring at the main menu in a queue than actually playing the mode.
And for the record, I WOULD LOVE if there really was a “paper, rock and scissors” dynamic where every ship class can play a significant role. But until they can manage that, the only dynamic in Naval is: whoever spawns bigger first, wins, end. There was no “dynamic” on being forced to spawn 5.0s against 6.3-7.3-7.7-8.7s.
I believe this could be achieved in a relatively simple way; if spawn points were further and further away from the land the bigger and bigger the ship classes were. That way, if someone wants to capture, they can spawn smaller vessels to do so. Meanwhile, larger ships could be more occupied dealing with convoys (CLs, CAs?) and carrier fleets (BBs, BCs?).
With full teams of bots instead players? OK. You can farm bots if you think this is the core gameplay of naval mods.
Old EC had problems, but killing PvP component was not salvation, it was just path of least resistance.
If I’m not having fun playing this mode, then no one else should either. That is clear logic?
Old Naval EC famously thrived with a consistent flux of full lobbies filled with players indeed. Definitely not always the same ~30 hardcore fans gathering to play every weekend and maybe managing to partially fill up 1 lobby at a time.
It’s funny you should say that, since that’s LITERALLY the line of thinking I’ve come across those of you opposing these changes:
“How dare you have fun being able to spawn balanced ships from the get go?”
“How dare you not mind bots until the new mode settles in and new players arrive after the changes?”
“How dare you enjoy this FILTHY TRASH C*SUAL friendly format? I hope you struggle and sweat just like I did!”
Like… come on. It looks like satire, but it isn’t. If I already preferred new EC over old one, my opinion DOUBLED DOWN after reading that comment.
The fewer top-tier ships we see in battle - and the greater the variety of vehicles - the more engaging the gameplay becomes for any ship class. Every vessel should have a specific role; as I mentioned earlier, battleships ought to cost significantly more in terms of spawn points. That way, no ship would struggle to find targets, and the strategic weight of each capital ship would increase. Instead, Gaijin decided to let everyone deploy top-tier ships right from the start, effectively killing any variety in matches. When everyone is “elite,” no one is.
SHOULD, yes, which is why I suggested something along the lines of:
However, the reality was simpler: all vessel types’ ONLY role was to be stomped by the bigger ones. All vessel types were nothing but cannon fodder and stepping stones.
I am the first one who would LOVE a Battlestations: Pacific-esque mode where PTs, DDs, CCs, everything could play a significant role. But old EC just wasn’t that.
And that’s more balanced than the lucky few first who managed to get enough SP spawning BBs while everyone else is stuck in DDs or CLs that stand no chance against them.
I think you’ll agree that Gaijin could have modified the old EC without destroying the PvP aspect. But apparently, creating new mechanics—or even just tweaking the SP system—seemed too costly for them.
Time will tell what kind of player counts we’ll see in EC, but even now I’m already seeing suggestions in the chat about “peaceful bot farming,” and I harbor no illusions that the situation will improve a month or a year from now.
In EC you always have a choice. Choice to resp in another spawn point or take B-29 and kill BB from 8 km altitude with 4000lb bomb. And if enemy team takes many BB, you can win this battle with fighter or attack aircraft, killing ground targets and enemy AI-bombers.
But in new EC with lobby, full of bots, it is no sense, I’m not interested in winning a session against a whole team of bots and players who are farming bots.
A choice isn’t a choice if you can’t choose what you want.
I’m a simple person; I generally favour and prefer BBs and they are 90% of the reason why I like and play Naval, just like many others.
Therefore, I dislike anything gatekeeping BBs.
“You can just spawn your Emden elsewhere 50km away from everything” really isn’t a “choice” and is hardly a solution.
As I said, it would be ideal if all ship classes had a significant role to play; but not being the case, and in either case not being allowed to spawn your preferred ship classes, is bad.
People should spawn CCs, PTs and DDs optionally because they had a role to play in the battle; NOT forcefully because they haven’t managed to get enough SP for the only functionally viable vehicles.
One flight on fighter, that costs 200+ SP and you can take any BB without playing Emden
I look forward to a rethink on these two choices made in the past which are now synonymous with easy farming for your fun… @Stona_WT @Smin1080p_WT
bro if you wanna you can give an a time and i join for the enemy team and destroy you with my meta.
for the fun of the game pvp.
so wanna do this i will join for 1 match until the player still up on enemy and i focus only us tell me When do you want to do it? so we can have farm and importantly active all your booster. :3
Or, if you like, we could set up an 8v8 match with the people here at whatever BR you prefer and play against other players to see if this format works without bots. Then we could try another one with a different playstyle, starting from the bottom (DDs) and progressing through the classes (light cruisers, heavy cruisers, battleships). We could use a kill-based system where you move up a tier every 10k damage to see which works best and we’d do it without bots, since there are 100 people who voted and I think they’d be willing to see which format performs better.
While, yes as it was before, torpedoes were the only option and danger to the capital ships once you as a player or team only had access to destroyers to keep them in check, torpedoes could be quite cancerous as well, given the volume and power some of them have, especially in arcade. It is a massive problem that some nations have only access to torpedoes that are 1 So slow that they take ages to reach a target, 2 are easy to spot and dodge, and 3 even if they reach and should they hit they deal 0 damage to a Battleship.
And other nations have access to, lets take the strongest example, the shimakaze: Japan has access to 22 destroyers with Type 93 Long lance torps with -depending on the model- 15 or 20 km range, that go 93 kph and everything that is not an iowa, sojuz and maybe a yamato has a chance to survive any kind of hit. And the shimakaze has 15 of them!!! It is a problem that mainly only one nation has access to torpedoes that are like 10 times better than the best ones any other nation has access to. Because its one of the main weaponries that work bottom down. One hit and your 600 Spawn point sojuz is gone. But would it really help if 300 of them are zooming across the map at any given time of the match? They need to be a a viable option for every nation to attack, sink and deplete the sp pool of the other team. If no one but 1, maybe 2 or 3 nations has acess to that tool in a viable efficiency it just favours part of a team, or because the teams itself can be so heavily unbalanced, one team.
I’m sure the torpedo nets had a reason to be introduced. And it wasnt to nerf torpedoes. Well actually it was, bear with me. Part of that thought process i bet was to make it impossible to spam torpedoes INTO the ports and INTO your spawn making it so whenever, wherever you spawn you will instantly die to a wall of torps. But with each and every mechanic, lots of them can and will work both ways. Torpedo nets, Spawn points (Yes, you can now spawn your best ship whenever, wherever you want. But the enemy team can do the same. Youre fully uptiered in your hood. The enemy team of 3 players are fully downtiered in their iowa and yamato. Good luck spawning your hood for free…) all or most of these mechanics can and will have multiple effects and work in both ways.
You know what? I wholeheartedly agree with a lot of that.
But it was in large parts the charme of the gamemode that lots of different ships could and had to be played. If you can chose to only play the strongest ship type, because, yes it is unbalanced for a destroyer, then who will spawn the offmeta ships? 100s of ships wont be played anymore because anyone that has it can just spawn the best ships, Iowa or Sojuz, whenever.
The counter was that, killing a 5.0 destroyer gave basically 0 Spawn points in a 8.7 ship and it could just be respawned with 0 SP point cost attached. Now, its a problem that it still cost SL to do so if you got killed by a ship youre completely outmatched against, but still that was rather cheap. Respawning an iowa cost 46000 SL…
And one hit with a long lance torp and hes gone, and with him his 600 SP. But that causes further problems that i explained in my post above.
If you could spawn your emden 50 km away from all the battleships, but there would be missions and enemies, be it bots or players, if there would be things to do for the ship you want to play in that moment, and these enemies where in the range of power you can handle that would be a different thing. But the snail never even started bothering improving the spawn point system. (Not SP required TO spawn but avalailable spawns on the map). There were no spawn points/ areas where only destroyers, or only cruisers could spawn. It was always: everyone has to spawn at one spot, and that spot is the only quick action, medium or close range fighting area. Except for coastals. That still could and where played. And even those could and have been viable, imagine that.
I get that people prefer playing battleships. I prefer that as well. But to, because of that, to reduce the pool of ships that will be spawned to a handfull of ships just aint the move. If you would want to reduce the pool of ships only to the ones that are fair fighting each other then we have lobbies where: Sojuz can only fight sojuz. Iowas are in a iowa-only lobby (at least for RB). And yamatos and musashis maybe with SoDak. Then Bismarcks fight only vanguards, Roma Italia, Richelieu, Jean Bart and Clemenceau etc etc. It is not ENTIRELY possible to make every 1v1 ship battle completely fair and everyone can only spawn this one ship because he wants to play this ship in this session. But the lineup of that nation, even combined with planes can alleviate that. 25% maybe even more of the matches were won by who had the better and more air players, did you know that?
Now, maybe it is not important or necessary to start with destroyers and cruisers that low as free spawn options. I think it could be possible to have Battleships as starting options for the top bracket.
The starting point for ships that cost SP (lets say for the top Bracket) could be increased to 7.0. Or 7.3 Or 7.7. People can spawn battleships for free. Rather good ones as well, that, in a team effort and with distraction of destroyers with torps and cruisers with good maneuverability could still bring down one of the top tier Behemoths.
But not the absolute top notch monsters. You would still need SP to spawn the ones 1.7 BR levels above the free entry margin. And that would still make lesser ships more viable, since, when anyone decides “today is sojuz day” not even any 8.0 ship on its own will be viable facing, defending from or attacking that thing. And if he gets swarmed, bombed or some nameless hero manages to torp and sink him, he cant go straight back into it. He will need to gain sp again if he didnt manage to bully half the lobby. But thats still better than making sinking him completely pointless-because same as you, he can just respawn for free.
Please read what I wrote. That is not at all what I said, and what I said remained within what the original posts have established. Thank you.
Go deal with a pair of shimakazes in open water, I’ll wait.