The AJ isn’t fake, it just has the wrong paint job. Its a really bad argument for adding a plane that never flew to the game. I really hope they replace the stupid thing with the Thai F-16 though, that way people can stop making this bad argument.
LOL, got proof that its not fake besides the fact that it was a proposed deal
2 Likes
It’s an airframe with the proposed (read: Never made) modifications Japan required to field the F-16, ergo is fake.
Even if they did, the variant that was flown in front of Japanese Officials couldn’t mount AIM-7M due to it not being wired for it
(Also it was only flown by Americans)
2 Likes
Very cool, given the relatively flimsy nature of the vehicle it would be an awesome event reward!
1 Like
In one of OP’s provided sources, it is said that the Ki-201 at the very least had a plywood cockpit mockup built, which was large enough to fit a person and presumably detailed enough to undergo an examination.
The website says that official data confirms the existence of a mockup.
In another source I don’t think was in the suggestion, it is suggested that the Ki-201 fuselage was “nearly complete” by Japan’s surrender.
This book does not give any mention of a mockup, meanwhile the website provides a primary source (official Nakajima data) to this claim. Both the website and book have a works cited page, but while the former lists multiple Japanese references as well as 1945 reports from both sides, the latter primarily utlizes other authors’ research on the subject.
8 Likes
I don’t like the F-16AJ from a historical standpoint either but as it is based off an existing airframe we can reasonably easily assume its performance. The Ki-102 (just like the R2Y2s) would be entirely based on made up figures and much worse historically IMO. If this is added then I’d expect the P.1101 and EF 126 too (plz gaijin)
2 Likes
There is nothing stopping you from reporting both of these machines. They were both created, so you can report them.
2 Likes
I didn’t have access to the second source you wrote about. Now I will be able to add it to the sources. Thank you very much :D
4 Likes
His info is wrong is the problem. Only one of the 2 submarines sank and it was the one carrying the Me-262 and Me-163.
The engines, key witness accounts, pictures, blueprints and documentation were in the other.
I have considered making suggestions for them but have limitted time between work and kther hobbies.
Honestly, if I wasn’t making other suggestions for Japan at this point, I would have submitted them
1 Like
It is quite a bit more fake than that.
Fist off, the F-16AJ in game is based on the production model F-16A Block 10. This is the same model that was proposed to Japan in the first F-16J proposal that was competing with the F-14 and F-15.
However, despite seemingly representing the first proposal, the aircraft in game is able to carry radar missiles on the inner underwing missile pylons. This was not a capability of the F-16J.
Second, the F-16AJ as a distinct name is only part of the second F-16J proposal, that in the brochure differentiated between F-16AJ and F-16BJ. This is not the same proposal, as we know the first was denied for lack of radar guided weaponry, which were included in the second proposal (albeit too late).
This proposal also differs a lot from the aircraft in game, as it is instead based on the second YF-16A prototype, instead of an F-16A Block 10 airframe.
It also included its experimental Sparrow mounts. Most prominently were the landing gear door mounted hardpoints, however all underwing missile pylons and the wingtips were also shown in the brochure to mount them.
And lastly, TV guided bombs (likely GBU-8 as seen on the US F-16A Block 10) were also advertised in the brochure.
But all of this is technically irrelevant, as it is actually nether two proposals. It’s based on a Gaijin imagined what-if scenario where Japan decided to adopt the F-16AJ over the more capable F-15, but somehow decided to downgeadw it for the sole reason that other F-16 users were content with the basic F-16 performance. Gaijin actually put out a whole disclaimer about this when it was released.
I personally find their what-if quite a bit unrealistic though, considering the only F-16 derivative Japan ever accepted was the already very much improved SX-3, which itself was then improved quite extensively into what is now the F-2. But apparently Gaijin knows better and Japan just wants a standard F-16 with two Sparrows over the F-15…
3 Likes
Right but thats not my point. What Gaijin added has very little to do with what Japan looked at buying, you’re totally correct. But what we have in game isn’t a paper plane. Its extremely close to the F-16A MLU in the Chinese tree. This isn’t a plane that never flew. Its not something that Gaijin is making up performance numbers on. Its a 100% real plane that Gaijin spraypainted some red circles on.
That is not at all comparable to an aircraft that never flew. The AJ is an entirely different form of bad idea from Gaijin and shouldn’t be used to justify what if stuff. Especially since the Ki-201 won’t help Japan a lot. Super especially because if Gaijin does start adding blueprint planes that will massively advantage the USA and USSR. No Gaijin won’t stop at giving minor nations blueprints, there is too much money to be made from the odd stuff cooked up by Mikoyan or Northrop.
1 Like
Wouldn’t go that far considering it’s currently a Block 10 which wasn’t compatible with Sparrows at all. But I get where you’re coming from when you say flight performance exists on the Block 10 already.
Then again I’d prefer an aircraft that never flew or even a proposal accurately represented over a made up aircraft that is “closer to something real”.
Especially thy way Gaijin likes to represent their game I am afraid people will think War Thunders F-16AJ for example would be a real thing. What I’m missing in War Thunder is transparency.
If they’d add vehicles to best match available spource material, and then included some form of indication which stage of development it was on that would be an amazing step up in my opinion.
Perhaps this could even go hand in hand with a communitiy Wiki project that (unlike the current one) focuses on collecting sources and presenting articles on the vehicles in game, but that might be a step too far for now.
Of course not, but currently the limit of “unfinished prototype” is the limit for all suggestions, so the Ki-201 wouldn’t change anything in that regard.
It isn’t that major nations can’t have those suggested and added now, it’s just that they have more alternatives to them that they are disregarded. Japan for example cuts off in vehicle variety abruptly from rank 5 onwards so it is only natural it is suggested already.
I don’t think we’ll see pure blueprints anytime soon though, as Gaijin seems to be preparing subtrees for nations that currently lack. Those might give us an extra couple of years before that becomes ncessary and likely even delay unfinished designs further.
1 Like
Thats the suggestion limit but they don’t really tend to implement planes that never left the ground effect anymore. I think they just have the suggestion limit lower to see what people dredge up.
Personally I’d consider “pure blueprint” and “made the engines” effectively the same 90% of the time. Most proposals involve an existing engine. I agree Gaijin is likely to hold off on never flew stuff for as long as they can, its their branding afterall. But given how much of a mess and how much complaining some of the Soviet ships cause I want that to be as long as possible so I’m against anything that brings it closer. So I have a blanket no to every plane that never flew, even the ones I like and kinda want to fly.
That probably is the case, though I remember the F-16AJ was implemented despite later information even disqualifying it and having the suggestion removed.
So I’d say 99% of the time they’d pobviously prefer a real aircraft, but they don’t completely disregard their options.
Fair enough, in terms of information available they probably are.
Suggestion rules say this is a vehicle specific part since the engines were specifically for the Ki-201, which technically makes them specifically parts of the Ki-201 that were completed, rather than some existing engines.
I can’t speak for everyone obviously, but I feel like these have a very bad reputation for being “the best” upon introduction. It feels like Gaijin is specifically digging in less complete designs to bring one nation to the top. The same reaction happened to the F-16AJ from other nations if I remember correctly, since it was the best F-16 at the time.
Then again ships do have quite a bit different development, withthe design essentially being fully complete before construction rather than having a prototype phase that planes would have in which the design can be modified or changed.
I wrote those articles about Ki-201 and Ne-130. This was the situation of Ki-201:
- Made wind tunnel models
- Made full sized sectional mockup of cockpit according to accounts
- Started making full-sized mockup, examination was scheduled in August 1945
- Started construction preparations, completed full-scale manufacturing drawings
- Basic design completed, detailed design 50% completed
- Prototype 0% completed
Problems with my article I later found out (it was written 6 years ago):
I did not mention that full-scale construction drawings had been made.
I said that 3 Ne-230 engines were built and bombed. In fact, as many as 5 Ne-230 engines may have been built, and they were probably not bombed as some books claim. Rather, they were destroyed when the war ended.
Ne-130 section is still accurate.
Personally I consider this to be a paper plane. I suppose one could argue that it had “vehicle specific components” made, but I think it is unlikely to be implemented to this game, even though I would want to see it.
However, there is no evidence in primary sources that an actual Ki-201 prototype was in any stage of assembly, despite what some books claim. The real development process was already exceptionally fast considering that the design process started perhaps as late as April, 1945.
9 Likes
Just saying, we are watching the thread. So behave.
Suggestion has guidelines which must be followed.
Now, a Vehicle suggested may never be accepted by Gaijin into game. But as a suggestion it can be allowed.
Please understand that
P.S. I am one of the few Japanese people who can dig deeper in research for this vehicle
4 Likes
As the creator of this suggestion, I will be grateful for any additional information about the ki-201
2 Likes