Just a fact T-80UD has “no reverse” is enough handicap
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As ive said, many times, ive yet to see two identical tanks differ in their BR due to thermals.
Gen two or not.
The T72 turms but has better era on the turret due to the layout, but yeah just noticed the hull composites are marginally better and has thr extra turret addon armour.
Again but they are the same BR, the turms is a side grade prem due to having worse armour but better optics and thermals. The 80UD should be the side grade to the B
The T80UD is much, much better than the T72B and the 72B (1989), it has a far superior composite layout, which btw is better than the composite on the BVM as the BVM is based off of the older T80B model.
I don’t think our BR system is fully black and white, as you’ll always have worse/better vehicles of the BR in question.
UD is in the better end of that, and gen2 thermals will surely push it over the edge.
Yes, TURMS has thermals going for it when comparing to T-72B but loses in the armor department.
TURMS has nothing going for it when compared to this new even vehicle and loses in terms of mobility, reload and armor.
New even vehicle should be the highest of the bunch.
No it should be the same BR as the damn T80UD if not be 11.0
The T80UD is literally this to the T80B!!! the T80B is slightly faster, and has thermals.
worse reload . The 80UD has the better armour, optics and no thermals, Why isnt it at the same BR?
Genuinely would like to give it a better round 3bm46 or something to that effect and bump its BR up
I’ll have to disagree.
Much slower, much better armor (on paper, in reality 80B is perfectly capable of eating loads of rounds at it’s BR), no thermals and reloads 0.6s quicker.
You’re putting all your eggs in the armor basket when in reality 80B’s armor is almost as good against plenty of threats.
That could work as well, but I don’t see the benefit as China already has a lot of 11.0 MBTs.
It isnt at all, least not nowadays, the T80UD composite layout alone puts its armour above the 80B, never mind the better ERA
armour, reload, optics, while the 80B has worse armour, reload, but has the slightly better mobility and thermals.
Its called a side grade for a reason, the 80UD is a perfect example of a side grade.
like the PSO to the 2a5/a6.
I meant make the 80UD/BE 11.0 if it got a better round. not the T80UD that is in the russian tree 11.0 that would be quite daft.
yet has no 10.7 MBTs at all now due to the move up.
im currently using them :D
Yes it is.
Leopards and M1s still exist alongside many others with ~400mm rounds.
Mobility isn’t slightly better, it’s much better.
By using that logic China will never get 10.7 vehicles.
You have to start from somewhere.
it isnt much better at all in practice in matches, T80UDs outpace the turms and are not far behind me in my t80B heck they keep up ZTZ99 before i get top speed.
It literally has nothing now to fill the gaps. They could of added it at 10.7 when there was an actual lineup for it with the other 10.7s that all moved up.
the relevance of that? DM23 can go through the front of a T80B turret, as can the Abrams round for the breach point, but that round is severely lacking at the BR regardless.
Plus as ive said, im not saying the 80B armour is bad.
but the UD armour is that of an 11.7 tank, and the composite layout is better than that of the T80BVM!!
its armour is just marginally better, it is miles better. just a quick comparrison of the DM23 round VS the frontal arc of both tanks at 500 meters. i can drop it lower or increase it as youd prefer.
The T80UD armour ls far better than that of the 80B, hence why id say its a side grade to the 80B.
Much like the 292 is with a slower reload, same mobility it trades armour and fire rate for a bigger round.
T80UD exchanges mobility and thermals for more armour, better fire rate and optics.
Sorry but yes it is.
I think we’ll have to disagree on this.
You have to start somewhere.
Denying the creation of new lineups just because there’s nothing there is not something I agree with.
Breech is a common weakspot.
DM23 users will still have to aim for common weakspots regardless if you’re in 80B or 80UD, but you’re losing mobility and thermals for that and get 0.6s reload in return.
That armor difference is often barely visible as the shells are pretty weak at ~10.3.
You’re comparing 292 with what ?
No but what will happen is the same nonsense we see with stuff like the T80UM2
PT16-14, rooikat 105 . sabra mk1 are just some examples off the top of my head.
IF gaijin were adding tanks and fleshing out lineups etc id agree with you, but they arent and don’t which is why i said what i did.
Im still using the UD/BE at 11.0 and its still absolutely fine, heck its more survivable than the MBT2000 and id maybe say the ztz99’s at 11.0 .
And you can pen the UFP of a T80B with DM23 as shown in the green parts on the pictures itll go clean through on both the right and left hand side, and on the turret face you can pen almost the entire face. compare that to the 80UD photo above it.
You also gloss over the reload as if its not that important, that 0.6 seconds is a massive deal, if it wasnt then why do people claim it is when comparing say, the BVM and 90M, it makes all the difference especially if the enemy tanks arent aced crews or you kill a loader. And have yet to address the fact the 80UD has far better optics for long range engagements, plus gen 1 thermals arent really all that at all, they are handy for spotting but it wont give you a reliable tank profile / detailed picture.
compare 292 with the 80B? yes?
Both are 10.7
both are T80s,
Both have negatives and positives compared with one another.
The 292 has a longer reload, better round, arguably better armour due to being again an 80U hull sin the ERA.
but gives up thermals, reload rate, and a slight bit of mobility compared to the B.
The 80UD has better armour than both, better reload than both, better optics than both, and worse mobility.
Why is that such a difficult thing to see as a side grade?
T80UD has a better round than most 10,7s bar the CR1 MK3 and chinese MBTs (correct me if im wrong)
Has better armour than literally every 10.7 due to it being an 11.7 turret and hull
has a decent 6.5 second reload which is actually on par with most 10.7s
leopard 2a4 with expert crew and maxed stats is 6.4 seconds
CR1 past the ready rack is 7 seconds a round with a maxed expert crew.
sweden has leopard 2s and strvs so they follow the same as the 2a4.
ariete the same, expert crew is 6.4 seconds.
china doesnt have a 10.7 but for the sake of it, ZTZ 96A - 7.1 second reload.
so the only tank with a realistically faster reload is the 10.7 m1 abrams
(lets be honest most people dont have aced crews so using expert is a better metric) however if we go aced.
its still only 0.5 seconds slower, compared to 1.1 seconds on a T80B.
mobility ? its better than the CR1s
better than the chinese MBTs,
Worse than leopard 2s and abrams.
and its genuinely not much worse than the 80B but yes it is slower.
How is that thing not worthy of 10.7?
name me one 10.3 that its worse than?
its more balanced alongside 10.7s than it is along side 10.3s
apologies for this being long winded btw and mayhaps disjointed got alot going on
Large parts of UFP are still a no go zone. You’ll still aim at the same weakspots, like it or not.
It’s a pro, no one said otherwise.
That’s a lot of ifs and buts.
You can’t shoot at something you didn’t spot.
Let’s not forget 80UD is slow as a fat turd both forwards and backwards.
Armor benefits are marginal as you’ll still face pretty weak rounds commonly.
It can go up or stay, I don’t really care. I just think you’re slightly overplaying it’s effectiveness.
Nah its not a lot of ifs, most people arent rolling around with aced crews as it costs a fortune, or literally hundreds of games
backwards agreed, forwards it isnt a fat turd at all, its faster than the CR1s, chinese MBTs, on par with the T72s and faster than a T72AV turms.
I think its getting mixed up, im just looking at it statistically how it sits, i find it like an anomaly in the roster. Not like these cabbages screaming till theyre red in the face that its some hyper OP machine, like they do with every russian vehicle.
depends if its an uptier as well which 10.3 is quite often.
On this note, gen 1 thermals have gotten me killed a few times due to not turning them off for a better shot.
Are you serious? Thermals don’t warrant even a slight br increase? Wow, don’t use thermals then, if they’re so useless. But anyway seriously if you think the UD is so good go and play it and see how you do, it’s just a slightly better T72b’89 because of the 0.5 second faster reload and nobody ever complained about a shitty T-72b being op, just shoot the breach and it’s a sitting duck. Also the UD is loud as fuck and super recognizable,it sounds like a lawnmower and you can hear it coming form 500m and yeah the armor is good but the survivability is zero, if it’s slightly angled you can smoke the ud very easily.
No they dont overall when stacked up against all the pros it has.
Im using the T80UD/BE at 11.0 with my chinese MBTs without thermals and have a 1.8kd with it already…
its got better armour, mobility and a better reload, with better optics. so its not just a 0.5 seconds faster reload, which btw its 0.6 faster.
never said the UD was OP, i said it should be 10.7 instead of 10.3 as it is literally a 10.7 tank compared to the others.
yet here we are, its ERA will, and does soak rounds enough to stop it detonating the ammo, its the same ERA found on 11.7 tanks that actively stops top tier rounds.
yeah the engine is loud, so are abrams, so are challangers, chinese MBTs, leclercs, leopard 2s. can all be heard hundreds of meters away. Its not that its massively louder, its more distinctive.
non of what you are saying disproves anything ive said, at all.
the reload is an advantage hell its faster than most nato MBTs unless you expert the crew and max it.
you jumped in here quite defensively, suggest you take a step back mate.
I mean premiums are already costing a fortune, with 80 euros price tag for a reskinned TT variant.
Getting your loader shot out is also a conditional.
You know you have a speed demon when you have to compare it to Challengers lol.
Anomalies do exist, but they’re a fault of BR compression, as most things in this game.
Talking about percentage of uptiers/downtiers shouldn’t really even happen as no one has those stats to present.
When playing through Japan, I noticed more uptiers to 10.3 when playing 9.3/9.7 lineups than downtiers to 10.3 when playing 11.3 lineup.
It could just be me though.
For sure, it happened to me as well.
I’ve also got killed by something I didn’t even noticed it’s there.
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9.3 is my favourite area to be honest, and its almost always uptiered now, but the 10.3s arent too troublesome compared to back when there was leo2s and such everywhere.
My 11.0 lineup for china usually sits in a 130sp area right now, occassional full uptiers to 12.0
yeah fair enough man
some do, alot would get moved to a more fitting BR. some get butchered by a BR move as well
Oi the CR1s are quite nippy buggers to be fair.
It’s nonsense, if the UD moves up the T-72 '89 should too and they are not on par with stuff like the leopard 2a4 and the challenger Ds, this whole post is pointless, they’re perfectly balanced at 10.3 and it doesn’t look like they’re overperforming. If there’s a premium that should go up that’s the bmd-4 .The New Chinese T-80 gets 2 gen thermals and as a result is 10.7, with gen 1 thermals it could have stayed 10.3 but 2gen give a pretty remarkable advantage in open maps. T-80b should be 10.3 or receive the 1985 armor package and stay at 10.7
If we had something like 13.0 BR I think that alone would solve half of the threads we have on the forum.
They are actually decently fast for their BR, which is honestly not expected.
more than likely to be honest but it is what it is.
we got M1A2s sitting at 11.7 same BR as the CR2 which it just out does in every regard.
The CR1 mk3’s are surprisingly good, the round for the BR is just shy of DM33 which is an 11.3 round now.
On top of that they have a more reliable armour due to the opposition not having as crazy high pen rounds.
mix that with the 10.7 lineup, vickers mk7, cr1 mk 2, 3 and DS, khalid and then a light of choice (i use the VFM) jaguar Gr1A , and now they moved the stuff up to 10.7 can use the FGR2 as cap! so got PD radar, skyflash and a decent platform.
Edit to say, ima stop here cause its now off topic! and that i removed the screenshots due to not having wiped off the account name etc by mistake.
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