Move Su-27 to 14.0, move Yak-141 to 12.7, move MiG-29G to 13.0

[Mantis_Chat_Ban]

I don’t see why USSR aircraft at top tier aren’t tiered accordingly to their armament. They have literally no competence, infinite armament options and the best of all, not giving any chance to any nation.

Let’s move onto top tier (12.3-12.7)

This is the air to air variety of armaments of a 12.7 Mirage 4000:

Magic 2s which are easy to defeat since they’re extremely short range and irccm only works from behind, magic 530d’s which are absolutely anemic, previously needing to grind the r23r like 530f.

This is the air to air load variety of the JA39 Gripen.

Anemic Skyflash, AIM9M whose IRCCM only works from side aspects.

This is the loadout of the F-15 Baz, which has the same options (albeit different armaments) of the f-15J which is superior since the AAM3 has more range than aim9m/python and has IRCCM

This is the loadout of the MiG29 SMT

it has very poor flight performance but the missiles have absolutely no competence in the game. Still, it’s a plane with six pylons only; the BR is justifiable.

This is the loadout of the su-27/J11:

six R27E and four r73s in infinite combinations, ten of the all best missiles in the game within a single airframe which is slightly ahead of the f-15 eagle, the mirage 4000 but miraculously not the gripen. No R60 stock grind, straight up r73. No R24R first step, straight onto the r27 which are still better than an aim7f/m as long as RELIABILITY goes.

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Moving onto 12.0

This is the loadout of the f-16a block 10:
:

Six aim9l’s which are easily defeatable with a single flare on most aspects even with burner on unless of course the target is extremely slow concentrating all the heat in one point. Yes it has very good flight performance, but pray to survive the wall of death before investing your insane performance onto dogfigh-… I mean notching r27er’s and spending all your flares on r27et’s forever,

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This is the loadout of the Mirage 2000 SC5:

Two very strong magic 2’s and two anemic 530D, having to go over the F first.

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This is the loadout of the yak41

it has stock r60s but it has the ability to carry two r27s with dual stage (ER ET) and two r27 single stage (r, t) which are in most occasions granted kills. Even more, the yak41 is probably the best dogfighter in the entire game, equaling the f-16a adf without using vtol and having no match at all using Vtol. But what’s the deal with Vtol thrust vectoring? You’re pointing your afterburning engine downwards with twice the thrust of your front engines, and instead the plane can decide it’s AOA like it was turning on a gimbal.

when this is what should happen in this scenario

It is not until the aircraft is flying like this, with the nozzle completely down, when all the three engines have an equal thrust, giving the aircraft the chance to pitch up or down, since the afterburner would not be possible to use and the aircraft’s systems would balance the thrust.

[YaBoyCoconut]

@Mantis_Religiosa

Magic 2s which are easy to defeat since they’re extremely short range and irccm only works from behind,

R73 and Magic 2 have the same seeker Fov stats, they are both equally hard to defeat.

@Mantis_Religiosa

six R27E and four r73s in infinite combinations, ten of the all best missiles in the game within a single airframe which is slightly ahead of the f-15 eagle

The SU27 is worse than the F15 in almost any scenario except when at 600-800kmh. Also the SU27 just gives up on providing meaningful thrust once you are under 300kmh, if you fall under that airspeed, you are basically gone.

@Mantis_Religiosa

since the AAM3 has more range than aim9m/python and has IRCCM

AAM3 and AIM9M share the same IRCCM Mechanism, better yet, they share the same seeker FOV, Only difference is Track-rate, with 22 and 30 for the Aim9M and AAM3 Respectively .

The decompression you are trying to achieve is good, since the top BRs are really tight, however you seem to only want changes for Russian vehicles, i dont see any other mention of BR changes regarding anything Non-russian

[Mantis_Chat_Ban]

R73 and Magic 2 have the same seeker Fov stats, they are both equally hard to defeat.

Then I just have bad RNG, all my magic 2s get flared away from 1km away burner on while I eat all of them with my engines on idle while flaring.

The SU27 is worse than the F15 in almost any scenario except when at 600-800kmh. Also the SU27 just gives up on providing meaningful thrust once you are under 300kmh, if you fall under that airspeed, you are basically gone.

why does that matter? Air RB at top tier is about who slings the fastest and hardest to defeat missilse, not about who stall fights better. It also has an HMD and a 180 degree radar fov, so it doesn’t need to turn at all while spreading death across the battlefield.

The decompression you are trying to achieve is good, since the top BRs are really tight, however you seem to only want changes for Russian vehicles, i dont see any other mention of BR changes regarding anything Non-russian

Exactly, because Russia is plain and simple too dominant from 11.3 and ahead and because Our Beloved Gastropod has demonstrated they won’t give anything to the rest of nations except Sweden from every on and often like when they got the draken, then the viggen introducing doppler radars and now the gripen with late 4th gen jets and amraam.

[YaBoyCoconut]

@Mantis_Religiosa

Then I just have bad RNG, all my magic 2s get flared away from 1km away burner on

What can i say, try launching in better conditions, i highly doubt the snail has something against you personally.

@Mantis_Religiosa

why does that matter? Air RB at top tier is about who slings the fastest and hardest to defeat missilse,

That is true, and the JAS39 has been an absolute death machine, while AIM9Ms are somewhat easier to defeat based on circumstance, they are effective at longer ranges, a single Gripen flanking can kill half of the enemy team. With the Magic 2 and R73 you have to be close for the IRCCM to be effective , or for the target to be afterburning in rear aspect.

@Mantis_Religiosa

they won’t give anything to the rest of nations except Sweden

I mean, thats not entirely true, Russia has decent planes, but so do most nations at that BR and forward. You are talking as if Russia is the only valid Air Nation. ERs are powerful, true, but not undefeatable .

[Mantis_Chat_Ban]

Better conditions? what better conditions is being launched straight ahead on an afterburning target 1km away? Oh wait, oh oooh yeah russians and their large caliber countermeasures. Who’d guess!

That is true, and the JAS39 has been an absolute death machine, while AIM9Ms are somewhat easier to defeat based on circumstance, they are effective at longer ranges, a single Gripen flanking can kill half of the enemy team.

Gripen is colder than the f-5e and has enough flight performance and acceleration to reach the flanks on time right after notching since takeoff. I tried to do the same and got insanely good positions, goofed up because f-15 is just an f-4j with extra steps; i usually die to an r27et I can’t flare because i’m very much scratching the ground and you know, flares on the NATO planes go down. That’s why I consistently kill F-5E’s on the SMT by launching r60’s on top of them.

ERs are powerful, true, but not undefeatable

True, then after the ER comes the ET a milisecond later, which as a matter of fact it’s undefeatable if you’re applying the tactics to defeat the ER.

[YaBoyCoconut]

@Mantis_Religiosa

flares on the NATO planes go down

Yeah … im aware… just roll right and pop a few , you dont have to be 1m above the ground to use multipath, 50 or so is enough

@Mantis_Religiosa

which as a matter of fact it’s undefeatable if you’re applying the tactics to defeat the ER.

Its literally just a big Stinger (they share almost identical seeker FOVs) , and it uses the same IRCCM mechanism as the R73 and Magic 2, its easy to flare if you position yourself right. Sure if the missile is launched 1km rear aspect, its really hard to flare, otherwise you should have no problem

[Mantis_Chat_Ban]

Yeah … im aware… just roll right and pop a few , you dont have to be 1m above the ground to use multipath, 50 or so is enough

that’s what I do when I’m flying like 10 meters above the ground; not when I’m 1m away from the ground. R27Er is so massive that even with multipath the splash radius will still render you inoperative. Even Defyn suffers from it

ts literally just a big Stinger (they share almost identical seeker FOVs) , and it uses the same IRCCM mechanism as the R73 and Magic 2, its easy to flare if you position yourself right. Sure if the missile is launched 1km rear aspect, its really hard to flare, otherwise you should have no problem

yesn’t. The r27et comes on par with the er. There’s no room at all to fly higher to be able to roll over and flare upwards. There’s only two seconds of time between the er and the et, which is one second and half from switching weapon and launch and the inherent drag of the rounder head of the et making it a tad slower.

[YaBoyCoconut]

@Mantis_Religiosa

the splash radius will still render you inoperative

Yes and no, its not like a pheonix where if it lands in your post-code you are done, but its not like a sparrow either, flying just high enough to survive and low enough to multipath is doable

[Mantis_Chat_Ban]

I have died enough times to them while barely 5m above the sea level

your narrative isn’t convincing.

[Mongaroth33]

its another cope topic on forum from you where you cry about soviet jets just go cope harder with overperforming flight model of f-16 under br’d f-15 and f-14’s and all other aircraft

[YaBoyCoconut]

@Mantis_Religiosa

your narrative isn’t convincing.

Your understanding of missiles isnt either, these missiles are not that troublesome to deal with

[Mantis_Chat_Ban]

Should I trust what some random person tells me on the internet? or should I trust what I see happening to me or happening to others? After the r27er comes the r27et, then the r73. Your narrative is pretty much like “if you are survivor of a shipwreck don’t worry about oceanic whitetips, they’re dangerous but not very troublesome to deal with, just boop their snoot” when everyone across the centuries has seen their crew mates getting eaten alive by these sharks the moment they fall to the sea.

[HMS_ArkRoyal]

should I trust what I see happening to me

I dont think anyone should trust you with the amount of times you complain about skill issues in different threads

[Firestarter]

@Mantis_Religiosa

AIM9M whose IRCCM only works from side aspects.

You forgot rear aspect, dumbass :)

@Mantis_Religiosa

ten of the all best missiles

debatable. While R-27ER are probably the best SARH missile available, R-73 is on par with Magic II and it is widely accepted that so long as you flare properly, AIM-9M is the tougher missile to defeat.

You’re also conveniently forgetting that the MiG-29, Su-27 and Yak-141 all have major drawbacks.

• All of their radars are not really that good
• The MiG-29 and Su-27 dump speed and find it insanely hard to recover said speed
• The Yak-141, whilst thanks to its very good TWR is able to accelerate hard, struggles to exceed Mach 1.05 on the deck. Most aircraft at this tier, and at 11.3 and upwards can outrun it (with the exceptions of the Harrier IIs and Su-25s)
• Their RWR sucks

@Mantis_Religiosa

because Russia is plain and simple too dominant from 11.3 and ahead

Jesus you haven’t played Air RB recently have you. The Gripen is probably the most capable airframe at top tier. Every SARH suffers from the exact same multipathing effects.

@Mantis_Religiosa

except Sweden

Fun fact the Gripen is also in the British tree.

Also, before the Gripen was added, which aircraft was dominating Air RB? Ah yes, that would be the F-16, and before that, the F-14. Yes, before that it was probably the MiG-23 (although I’d say us Phantoms with PD radar gave those things a good run for their money)

Air RB needs decompression, absolutely, 99% of players would agree on that. But idk what makes you think Russia in particular needs moving up ij BR.
Your current proposed BRs would mean that the Flanker would only ever see itself and the MiG-29… which is quite frankly ludicrous.

And you think this is some kind of “defence of russia by a Russia main”, I regret to inform you I am in fact a British main.

[Mantis_Chat_Ban]

we still have the witness of the rest of players. Problem is they mostly go “oh yeah it’s a good missile, it’s balanced” and move on without addressing the balancing issues nor the incorrect modeling.

[Firestarter]

@Mantis_Religiosa

I chose USA because I knew that before the events that should not be mentioned USA was absolutely busted flight model wise both for props and for many jets; and I had my best time playing with them, scoring 3+ KD on most of the aircraft while i barely did 1:1 on the rest of nations.

That screams “I have an enormous skill issue and want my opinion to not be taken seriously”

Like seriously man…

[Mantis_Chat_Ban]

You forgot rear aspect, dumbass :)

nice adhominems, really starting fires, live up to your name.

I have flared aim9m’s more consistently from behind than from the sides… maybe because flares are left behind?

debatable. While R-27ER are probably the best SARH missile available, R-73 is on par with Magic II and it is widely accepted that so long as you flare properly, AIM-9M is the tougher missile to defeat.

On par? You’re really serious that a missile with twice it’s range, more gimbal limit and slow speed thrust vectoring is just equal to the magic 2? Also in my experience i’ve defeated aim9m’s easier than I did against r73s.

You’re also conveniently forgetting that the MiG-29, Su-27 and Yak-141 all have major drawbacks.

• All of their radars are not really that good

yet they got more range, less notching frame and more lock consistency than those on f16, mirage 4000 and f15s

• The MiG-29 and Su-27 dump speed and find it insanely hard to recover said speed

why would you need to dump speed? You have an HMD that prevents you from having to change your trajectory to lock onto people, this is a major skill issue and lack of positioning knowledge.

• The Yak-141, whilst thanks to its very good TWR is able to accelerate hard, struggles to exceed Mach 1.05 on the deck. Most aircraft at this tier, and at 11.3 and upwards can outrun it (with the exceptions of the Harrier IIs and Su-25s)

So what? The F-5E and J7E are 300kmh slower than anything they face and still have insane energy retention and do extremely well, with a plus for the j7e for having the best rear aspect ir missiles in the entire game. Why would speed matter when you can kill two people within the merge and other two more after going to a side? Know the flying patterns of your enemies. I know when a plane is an f-16 or a mig29 or a tomcat (and their respective similar playstyle analoges) since my radar starts picking targets. The yak41 is slow, but it’s missiles are the fastest of the BR.

Jesus you haven’t played Air RB recently have you. The Gripen is probably the most capable airframe at top tier. Every SARH suffers from the exact same multipathing effects.

So what? Sparrows have very little proximity fuse and ridiculously low splash damage, r27er’s have a massive proximity and huge splash radius. Even if it has multipath the missile shrapnel will still ruin your airframe and deem you useless.

Fun fact the Gripen is also in the British tree.

it was added barely a week ago, the swedish gripen was the first one and has been since last year.

Also, before the Gripen was added, which aircraft was dominating Air RB? Ah yes, that would be the F-16

Wrong. The F-16 was poorly implemented; was out fought by the MiG19PT in 1v1 and didn’t even have the aim7.

and before that, the F-14

I agree. The F-14 is the stopgap of american bias.

Air RB needs decompression, absolutely, 99% of players would agree on that. But idk what makes you think Russia in particular needs moving up ij BR.

Maybe giving no room to other 12.7s to compete? The Gripen is also 13.7 worthy in my opinion.

And you think this is some kind of “defence of russia by a Russia main”, I regret to inform you I am in fact a British main.

Delusion is not subject to nation mains, but to mob mentality and bystander effect. “I say the same as everyone else to avoid criticism”

you end a sheeple, or deemed crazy. The sad part is that many people deemed crazy are indeed crazy, but a small portion of them actually are the ones being right.

[Morvran]

@Mantis_Religiosa

it was added barely a week ago, the swedish gripen was the first one and has been since last year.

Britain got it’s Gripen in the same update as Sweden last year. Italy only just got theirs

[HMS_ArkRoyal]

Bro really added the J5N1, Hornet and Sea Fury stats into a discussion about the top tier ARB
Not only are you fundamentally wrong about everything you talk about due to being bad, you cant even bring up the right plane stats.
Though I will admit reading your cope threads are quite amusing

[Mytho-GR1]

And yet he isn’t complaining is he