I would be in favor of the ayin getting moved up to 9.7 as long as they buff the shafrir 2 a bit, bc atm the shafrir 2 falls out the sky the moment it stops burning
I don’t believe there’s any sources indicating that’s incorrect. It just has high drag, and for all I know that may be historical, no?
No clue tbh, but in my matches of using it it seems even missiles like the 9b glide for longer and it kinda seems to hit like a brick wall of sorts because it decelerates fast, i dont know how historical that would be since i do not know any sources that tell its glide performance
It’s a similar experience with the Magic 1 and 2, it’s just a drag issue, but not something gaijin would change unless sources are presented.
What do you mean “cope” buddy?
I list statistical facts about the vehicle and why its in a fine BR for its equipment and ability, especially when compared to the vehicles of similar stature that you seem to continue to ignore in order to maintain any sentiment of an argument, bias much?
Im certain 95% of players that cry about the Ayit, dont even own it and are just upset their OP premium has to face a jet with counter measures and 2 AIM-9D’s and cant stomp an entire lobby. Israel is the LEAST popular nation, how often are you even seeing this thing compared to every other missile bus from 8.3-10.3???
The MiG-21S (R-13-300) is 9.7, travels at Mach 2.0-2.2 above 6000m~, has radar, RWR, 4 all aspect SARH missiles and a great 23mm center mounted cannon that shoots 3400rpm. If you start with 50% fuel, about 20~ minutes, you immediately get a thrust-to-weight ratio of .90-.97 and if you take 30% fuel, about 11 minutes, you start with a thrust-to-weight ratio of 0.97-1.05 that continues to grow until fuel is emptied.
The Ayit at its LOWEST fuel level, 30% or 10 minutes, you get a MAX thrust to weight ratio of .78 that takes 3+ minutes of optimal condition flying to achieve.
The fact anyone thinks the Ayit needs to be 9.7 or even higher shows how little they truly know about this aircraft, it is a 8.3-8.7 airframe with a 9.0-9.3 engine for Christ sake!
4 10g missiles and a water cannon.
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Your whole tirade is embarassing to read, you don’t understand how radar missiles works in warthunder at all.
The first aircrafts with a PD filter and CW seeker missiles you see in Warthunder is 11.3, it’s the JA37C. The first aircraft with CW missiles without a PD filter is 11.0, and it’s the F4EJ. And those are Aim7E that are so freaking terrible that nobody ever use them.
Any other SARH before this points have a pulse seeker, and the only ones that are remotely dangerous are the F8E’s Aim9C and the Mirage III’s R530. They both only works at altitude, are limited to a maximum of 8km in the best circumstances (high altitude, no mountain or anything, on a target flying straight) and will get defeated by a single chaff drop. You don’t even need to defend or notch or anything, just drop a chaff and turn away.
R3R on the Migs are basically Aim9B with a pulse seeker. You don’t even need chaff to defeat those. One sharp turn and they’re useless.
On top of this, Ayit is an attacker. If you want to compare it to other attackers, it has absolutely no business staying as low as it is. It should definitely be 9.7 at the very minimum. Having four missiles this potents + DEFA at 9.3 is insane. The 9.0 Etendard which is very comparable has 2 Aim9B at 9.0 with no countermeasures.
The Mig21 doesn’t even comes close to Mach 2 at 6000m btw. Its max speed is 2100km/h at 13000m. Even the F15E takes a while to get to mach 2 at 7000+. Especially not the F13. It’s supersonic sure, but it doesn’t go beyond mach 1.10 at best in most circumstances.
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That isn’t how this works, air and ground BRs are separate now so you can just judge it on its A2A merits and while the missiles are good, the FM is not great for 9.3 compared to something like the Hunter or MiG-19 or F-104 it bleeds a lot of speed quick easily ends up slow.
It sits at a crossroad between gunfighters and missile fighters and if you ever play the thing, you’ll realize it’s good but not the best 9.3
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Fair, but if you just want to judge the plane compared to other fighter, it still stands out a lot compared to most 9.0-9.7. It has countermeasures, four potent missiles, decent enough flight model and strong guns at the cost of lower top speed than the dedicated supersonics. Most planes at this BR have half of these strenghts at most.
F104 is a brick, it’s completely useless against any player with awareness. Mig21F13 is quite frankly just bad. The real soviet contender at this BR is the Mig19. Oh and the Hunter is really strong too.
you could pretty well argue the same about the Ayit.
But until the MiG-19 moves up, the Ayit should probably stay where it is
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F104 doesn’t have 18G IR missiles, and it doesn’t have countermeasures.
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Lmao I have the MiG-21S (R-13-300) so I dont know who you think you are fooling.
The F104 is Over BR’d due to its recent nerfs, It should be 9.0, comparing a blatantly under powered vehicle to prove that a vehicle is OP and needs a BR increase is just being ignorant.
9.0 lmao. I agree that the F104 is bad, but it’s still faster than anything else it encounter. A plane that nobody can catch isn’t fun for anyone to fight.
Please stop trying to argue you know what you are talking about when you mentioned notching against 10.0 SARH lmao.
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Not even worth arguing with you bud, You dont have the Ayit and you are totally discounting the fact that 10.0 would be placed against 11.0 jets.
You clearly are far out of your league pal, if you dont start notching as you are being tracked, that just speaks to your own lack of skill.
Just maybe, these are things you would never consider since you dont play Subsonic aircraft that face supersonic jets with radar missiles.
but it’s still faster than anything else it encounter. A plane that nobody can catch isn’t fun for anyone to fight.
Wow just like the MiG-21S (R-13-300)?
Way to contradict yourself while trying to appear informed.
Edit: Lmao… Okay let me get this straight. You dont have the Ayit OR MiG-21S (R-13-300)?
Yeah… we are done bud. Come back to this conversation when you actually have some first hand experience.
Please tell me which aircraft at 9.3 are better than Ayit ? It even has a RWR at 9.3.
The most comparable aircraft to it are the 9.7 Harriers. Horrible airframe, countermeasures, 240 ammo on their cannons, 2 Aim9G. They’re worse than the Ayit in weaponry while having comparable everything else.
Notching is used to defeat PD radar and CW seeker missile. You don’t need to do that with chaffs against pulse seeker missiles. Chaff once, turn slightly, and any SARH missile before the Aim7E2 are defeated. Aim7E2 is only found at 11.3 BR and up.
Yeah, and the 21S is a bad plane at its BR too. It also can’t go any lower because it’s supersonic. I don’t see where I’m contradicting myself there ?
Bro you don’t have a third of my experience flying planes, and you’re bad at using them on top of that. The excuse “you don’t have the plane” doesn’t work, especially when you misunderstand fundamental mechanics.
Do I need to own the Ariete to know it’s overpowered ? Do I need to own the F15E to know what it’s capable of ?
Bro are you lost?
Ayit and AV-8C have the same amount of counter measures
Ayit has a horrible airframe, literally a 8.3 airframe.
Ayit has 300 rounds
AIM-9G are upgraded AIM-9D