Frigate spawns together with destroyer ,not with PT boat.So they have to face destroyer that havs similar BR.But only a handful of frigate can compare with DDs at the same BR,like Pr.35 or Koln.Most frigates have high br but little armament.Yenot only has 3x100mm gun; Pr.1331M only has 1x76mm gun ;Chidori only has 2x120mm gun and USS Coolbaugh only has 2x127mm gun.Meanwhile DDs at the similar BR can have 4x130mm gun or 6x127mm gun.Frigates have no way to defeat the DDs .They face each other Immediately frigates get evaporated.
And I don’t know why but Frigates have very expensive repairing costs , some even over 17k SL ,more expensive than 6.0 cruiser.
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Well in realitic where mtbs are useless since they can only act as very bad gun boats, anything that effectively kills them is being put up in BR. But since almost nobody plays coastal vessels there, it doesnt make much difference.
In AB all frigates and destroyers could be lowered in BR (frigates by a higher value) and some mtbs could be raised in BR.
I’ve similar opinions although some of the frigate type warships you ask to go down can be devastating at their current BR (RB wise).
Take the Project 1331M, Funnily enough MPK were subchasers & corvettes but nothing the size of a frigate as those were SKR’s, But that corvette shouldn’t be 3.7 due to not only the RBU-6000 mortars but also the AK-630 CIWS on the bow, IMO it’s the perfect balance between non terrible & not OP but if it was 3.7 than OOF it would be OP.
The SKR Yenot on the other hand I do agree should go down maybe even to BR 3.3 as it’s basically an over glorified starting destroyer with no rocket mortars an limited torpedoes, Meanwhile other Project 50 vessels can be 3.7 BR as they’re also not 4.0 material but at least have the RBU-2500, That’s for both SKR Rosomacha & SKR Karl Marx.
The Torpedo Boat Chidori is a vessel that I whole heartily agree on going down to BR 3.3 as there’s no point in it staying 3.7, If it was say an As built ship pre Tomozuru incident or a pre 1944 configuration I could see it staying at 3.7 but the relatively weak main armament is to little for 3.7. (Sniff I wish it kept its torpedo reloads as those sometimes don’t make sense on other ships with reloads in regards to where they’re stored).
I don’t have much thought on the USS Coolbaugh DE-217 yet as I’ve only played a few matches so far but that’s more down to BR compression, IMO it could become a 3.7 vessel but man ten 40 mm bofors at even 4.0 is just mean hah hah.
Majority of these vessels all are plagued with high cost of the “coastal” TT even though most of the ships just mentioned were built for bluewater operations (the corvette is an outliner here), As well as the ridiculously stupid high repairs & ammunition costs as 45 sl is ridiculous for these ships per shell (that adds up bloody quickly) vs the bluewater TT low requirements, low repairs & ammunition costs, At this point I’d rather see the trees re-merged over continuing with this crap.
If you wish I can add further thoughts on other frigate type warships not listed here including the 4.0 Destroyer of the coastal TT.
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Unfortunately with what few people play naval focusing on bluewater, frigates (that are not Köln, or SKRs) and high tier MTBs as a whole have little hope of ever being anything but interactive RP Pinãta.
Either your Frigate gets anti-sub rockets/good guns, or you have a nice paperweight that you can spin in the hangar.
Quite a few people dislike anything coastal out of principle as well, there were people preemptively crying about the MPK Pr.11451, when it is just a 12412 that gets to a place where it’ll die quicker, receiving .4BR for the privilege when it’s functionnaly identical, and even somewhat worse because it won’t get Strelas.
Most attempt I’ve had at discussing frigates turned out pointless due to how deeply the SKR poisons the well, or rather the fact that it’s a Soviet boat, where you just end up going around in circle.
I also can’t really picture any PvP mode that would make modern coastal vessels relevant and be fun for all involved party, no matter how much I think about it.
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I think your being a bit harsh on the Frigate class. For their BR, its ok. Until GJN is convinced to decompress the bluewater line downward and maybe add a separate spawn for all Corvette, Patrol Boat and Frigate class, there’s going to be an awkward phase as you work up the coastal TT.
Most Frigates outclass almost all boats from all tiers. There not frontline units, so gunnery duels will get you killed quickly more then anything. If the match looks DD heavy, switch to a different boat till the conditions favor a Frigate. Sometimes, there is no favorable condition for your Frigate. If that’s the case, don’t use it. Bring a balanced lineup to shift to the conditions of the match.
Personally, I like most of the Frigates. I wish we had more.
“At this point I’d rather see the trees re-merged over continuing with this crap.”
Well at first, it seemed out of wack and hastily done… probably because it was. However, after a few years… I’ve come around to thinking it was probably the better long term choice to make. In terms of TT for other nations that didn’t have bluewater power projection.
China - Hand full of Cruisers, no BBs
Israel - No cruisers or BBs
Sweden - Coastal BBs… hand full of Cruisers
But they all have coastal ships for a coastal TT. So in that regard, I can see it making sense.
“I also can’t really picture any PvP mode that would make modern coastal vessels relevant and be fun for all involved party, no matter how much I think about it.”
Early Missile ships will be pretty fun. I can’t wait to see Pr. 183Rs lobbing Styx missiles at BBs to annoy them. Much fun is still to be had.
But ya, practicality wise, your probably right for early missile slingers.
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But if you put them at Coastal spawns they are massively OP vs coastal.
That’s why some pretty useless “frigate” size vessels do get coast pawns I reckon - eg the poor ol’ Flower Class corvette!!
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Considering that the devs don’t even follow the naming conventions of these TT’s as much as I want to see Coastal Defence Battleships (eg sweden, an britain, america, italy iirc, imperial russia, germany iirc) I have doubts that those would end up in a bluewater TT similar to seeing nearly all of the bluewater ships in the Coastal TT from corvette to frigates to even destroyers with most of which being bluewater vessels that screened formations from one side of the globe to another through open ocean.
At least a Rank V/VI coastal TT CDB would fight similar peers like the ACR’s do in the bluewater TT ntm both would have similar costs unlike say current frigate type warships which cost alot yet fight cheaper & superior foes.
At least in the old TT & pre rank based economics the best ships had the highest cost no matter the ship while the worse were sub 1000 sl to repair an all ships had expensive ammunitions costs.
Still I’m not alone, I’ve seen others with similar shared thoughs about remerging the trees over carrying on researching hundreds of thousands for the most useless or insane ships, at least with the latter they’re insane for their armament an piss off cheaper superior ships but the former, WHO THE HELL WHAT TO RESEARCH SOMETHING WORSE THAN A STARTER DESTROYER??? (Exhibit A: Tacoma class Frigate, Sidenote I researched it when it was even worse having been 390k rp an pre rank based it was only 8k sl for a month but before that it was 54k sl to repair), if that ship was in a remerged tree I could see it being 2900 rp.
Sidenote China did have a Battleship albeit a pre-dreadnought Ironclad Battleship…
E1, fixing won’t to would in the first paragraph.
Imo, frigates need two things.
- a much cheaper purchase and repair cost.
And - actual targets that it can stand a chance against (like submarines)
I don’t think most frigates can do better at chasing submarines since they are larger and not as flexible as subchasers.
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Depends on the frigate, HMS Blackpool has passive homing anti sub torpedo’s (the bidders) and the limbo ASW mortar. That thing would be lethal against subs
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Frigates are generally singe purpose, and an ASW Frigate would normally be expected to be much better at ASW than a smaller sub-chaser - they can carry more and better equipment and armament, up to Helicopters since at least the mid 1960’s.
I am glad I saw this thread.
I was JUST about to purchase Karl Marx, as a Coastal option for the Coastal zone capture points…
…and it turns out it spawns ON THE DESTROYER POINT!? What’s the point of it, then? I would spawn a full fledged Destroyer while I’m at it.
I thought Frigates spawned at the Coastal spawn points, that was the whole selling point of them to me. Since it is not the case, I will pass.
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Karl marx is still a very good ship, spawning it on coastal spawns would have no sense as it would club every small boat there.
But following this logic every other frigate would spawn there as well, which would result in absolute chaos lol
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I think all Frigates should spawn on the Coastal spawns- after all, they are in the Coastal tree!
And I think it makes sense that they replace Torpedo Boats and alikes in that area; after all, Frigates are the end, Top Tier vehicles of the Coastal mode, while Torpedo Boats are on the lower BR ranges.
Otherwise, I don’t see why anyone would spawn a Frigate instead of a Destroyer, since Destroyers are much larger and capable in the same spawns.
Why is the naming that alwasy gets people wind up lol? Frigates are usually lightweighted destroyers and are not at all comparable to small boats. Putting them against each other on 4-5km distance is nothing different to putting two destroyers on the same distance. It would be a knifeknight and no outcome would be satysfying. Also small spawns have usually no room for even 3-4 frigates, not to mention possible 10.
Frigates are coastals because their main role is to fight coastals. You get faster turret rotation, faster aim, better AA, proxy fuses, radars, unguided rockets and torps. Your job is to support your team and get as fast as possible to coastal spawn area. After cleaning it whole from small boats, in close distance you can usually contest destroyers with mentioned wide array of weapons.
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Then perhaps there should be a specific Frigate spawn point, between the Destroyer and the PT/Patrol boat one… but as it stands right now, Frigates seem pointless mostly because of their Destroyer spawn.
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There’s a reason the JDS Chikugo DE-215 doesn’t have a small craft spawn, Same for the SKR Groza & Kaibōkan Shōnan all of which went ham originally with these spawn points.
Also Frigates in game ain’t all just Frigates as they range from ASW Corvettes, Sloops, & hell full blown destroyers due to the poxy devs stupid streamlining of classes.
But hey maybe our squadmates onto something heh, Maybe the destroyer JDS Ayanami DD-103 should get a small coastal spawn for the memes heh as afterall it’s a frigate in game.
Side thought, not all Frigates are purely coastal ships & many of them were ocean going escort ships by design even some having ocean in their classification, Most in game are just in this TT due to whatever the devs were originally thinking when they split the trees.
they arent pointless as I just mentioned. But if you want to insist they are, you are free to feel oppressed and not learn.
Intermediate point would ease up the time for frigates to reach coastal spawns and on some maps it would put the spawns in the immediate fire range of said frigates, eliminating coastal spawning small boats gameplay. It would also not entirely benefit frigates, as they would be closer to enemy destroyers and would get focused instead of being able to blend in their team. Current implemetation works well imo.
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How would Frigates be closer to enemy Destroyers by spawning on the Coastal points instead of spawning literally along with Destroyers themselves…?
It wouldn’t eliminate it, since it’s a part of it- coastal isn’t just Torpedo Boats with machine guns…
point between destroyer and coastal spawn would be closer to enemy destroyer spawn… I recommend drawing it on paper, because I don’t know how else I could explain this :)
corrected for the pointless nitpicking
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