He’s talking dogfights.
F-15J MSIP and Typhoon are equivalents outside 1v1 dogfights.
Basically yea. In terms of raw flight performance. Stealth is kinda moot as we know the F-22 is stealthier but we obviously don’t know the exact numbers.
Specifically in War Thunder, stealth won’t matter until they change up the current air battles and multipathing. After all, if you’re save from radar missiles near the ground, forcing WVR combat, then flight performance (and countermeasure type/amount) becomes most important.
My basis is on supposed F-22/EFT pilot testimony about how EFT beat F-22s in WVR combat majority of the time. Of course testimonies aren’t the full picture and trial dogfights don’t show full capabilities.
Personally, I think the F-22 would be better, if even by a little bit, thanks to thrust vectoring, but the EFT does have sound design to have very good dogfighting performance. In addition, the performance of the EFT is a lot closer to the F-22 than it is to an F-15.
If we’re making those kind of statements than an F-2 is a gen 4 plane outside of AESA radar and thus should be in the game already, just like F-15C MSIP is a Typhoon “equivalent” and shouldn’t be in the game already.
F-2 maybe could. I don’t have an answer cause I’m no where near understanding AESA properly yet.
Less than 2 hours of research in, and I’ve been lazy to continue.
I know AESA is still notch-able cause it’s still PD. What I don’t know is if it 1- Uses pulse modes. 2- If it uses pulse modes with the active filtering then notching isn’t possible but chaff might still be possible.
My understanding, from a fundamental level, is that it’s just multiple antennas that can point wherever they want independent of the actual physical radar dish. So having multiple antennas, spaced apart would kind of give you more information on the actual location of the target (kind of like in astronomy with telescopes spaced apart or same telescope taking data from different points in space throughout the year).
With that info in mind, I would think you can still notch AESA radar, just it would be harder, depending on the distance to target (closer the target, harder to notch, though that’s universally true I think).
I don’t think you can notch aesa radar at all.
The point of those shitton of small antenna is so that the computer can redirect and change frequency after all. So if a plane is notching the radar simply lock the plane with another frequency.
This is the first I’ve ever heard of such a thing in my life.
Isn’t there a limit to how much you can change the frequency otherwise you lose good targeting data resolution?
First I heard of it was in one of the EFT threads somewhere when somehow the discussion turned into F-22 vs EFT.
We’ve seen F-16s and Mirage 2000s beat the F-22 in practice fights (hell I think F-4s even) because these sorta of practice fights are not designed to be reality but to test very specific scenarios. Hell there’s even an A-10 with an F-22 killmarker out there.
However if we are just talking pure dogfight performance, the typhoon is definitely in a better place when put in a pure dogfight against an F-22 (although very dependent on speed and alt, F-22 has frankly insane altitude performance). I’d still give the F-22 a pretty big advantage, but the typhoon is pretty damn mobile, and while they don’t have the pure power, it’s engines are still pretty great.
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I have no idea since it computer controlled, but since the aesa said can lock to a plane and not triggering RWR i do think it change the frequency alot.
Don’t know about guiding the missile though
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Yea, it’s why I put that disclaimer there that, it’s not exactly fact since it’s just testimonials and on top of that, nobody would really want to show the public the limit to their aircraft. I did some more googling and saw mention of the reason the F-16 even beat the F-22 was because F-22s were new and pilots didn’t know how to use the thrust vectoring well, so bled too much speed forcing them to recover, which the F-16s took advantage of. Wouldn’t be surprised if every F-22 beat by x, was a similar story.
Regardless yea, the EFT isn’t bad by any means and I can definitely see it vastly outperforming the F-15 and competing with an F-22, even if it’d lose to one all the same.
Yea, I am curious because maybe your radar can see it, but still not enough information for a non-AESA radar missile to use. Also, no idea if a missile can just hit the target purely through datalink anyway.
A lot of these flight situations are literally set up to lose even, because putting an F-22 in it’s best situation isn’t useful. You don’t learn anything from it picking off a helpless plane from 50km. You do learn something from losing, because you learn how to get out of that situation.
Its something people often don’t understand with wargames, winning a wargame because you outnumber, outgun and outech an enemy isn’t useful.
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Yall have to take into consideration every time the F22 fights anything it always has limitations tied to it foe example, I read something somewhere with most of the EFT fights the 22s had drop tanks attached with extra fuel
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Agreed, since it’s still a new technology and still in use i doubt they’ll declassified it anytime soon. For me, probably gonna start looking for the AIM-7 and aesa interaction.
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We know RCS and only that is enough to say that F-22 will win long before it’s spotted. If you take into account radar absorbent material it will be even easier
Both have radar absorbent material. Plus official numbers are obviously not the actual numbers. Regardless, stealth wasn’t part of the discussion.
The Eurofighter has no visible RAM except for additive paint on the leading edges of intakes and wings, canards… shaping is not optimal for radar reflections and the overall design as seen from factory photos has no radar reductive qualities. Other gen4 fighters such as Rafale have many of these and the majority of such features are something that is evident and visible… They are not present on EFT.
The Tornado was similarly over hyped by pilots and Europe alike but just keep in mind that Gaijin is going to place it with like-performance vehicles in some way and it will likely not be facing off with stealth fighters any time soon. When it does, it is also unlikely it will maintain much of an advantage even WVR.
The F-15J and other aircraft will be good counterparts.
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I think when it comes the typhoon will definitely be on the higher end of planes in the game (adamant dependent ofc), the new F15 of the game as it were. But just likethe F15 it won’t be untouchable. Probably won’t help either that the majority of them that we’ll see will be the worst one (german) as germany cheaped out on everything again.
I don’t think the flight performance of F-15C and EFT are comparable, strictly speaking in flight performance and armaments. Otherwise, why not add the EFT soon? Regardless, do you have info on its performance?
Isnt the upgrade with the fancy tech the mdtp variant?
I only know of a 600 gallon drop tank with a high speed camera to check the separation in drop tests, so if you know of one with an IRST, please let me know.