Both Mirage 2000D’s are horrible to play in Air RB, they constantly face Planes with 8–10 Medium and Short range Fox 1, Fox 2 and Fox 3 Missiles, whilst the M2KD’s can only carry 2 relatively short range Fox 2 Missiles and the M2KD’s don’t even have integrated guns, so you have to carry a heavy Gun pod on both Aircraft. The F/A-18C Early sits at the same BR as the Mirage 2000D-RMV and can carry up to 10 Missiles. Same for the Mirage 2000D-R1, it sits at the same BR as the F/A-18A’s wich can carry up to 8 Missiles, 4 of those being Medium range Radar Missiles. I think the M2KD-R1 would be more balanced at 11.3 or 11.7 and the M2KD-RMV would be better a 11.7 or 12.0. The M2KD-RMV has been at the same BR since it was added to the Game and many better Aircraft have been added to that BR-Range, why is it still there?
mirage 2000 flight model and 2 magic 2s? is like 12.0 and only if the mirage f1 also went down
the problem is compression, they were great fun before the f18s were added and even after theyre still mostly fine (the D-RMV is a bit more of a problem but its also a compression issue)
I can maybe see the D-R1 moving down to 12.0 to join the Mirage F1, maybe… Its a more capable FM, but less CMs and no SARH. But it does get very very messy fast.
RMV having the HMD does enhance the Magic IIs quite a bit and makes it a notably stronger aircraft than the Mirage F1 and D-R1. Making it joining the others at 12.0 highly unlikely.
So at most I could maybe see them both getting a 0.3 BR drop, especially after the BR reduction of the Mirage 2K C-S5. But that is it. To suggest either go below 12.0 is kinda insane when compared to aircraft at 11.7 such as the Tornado RET8
The problem is that it gets magic 2’s and the m2k flight model, yes its horrible i know (i spaded the r1 in air and the RMV halfway through arb) but you cant really move the RMV down since its has hms with magics, the r1 at the other hand could go down since its the same br as the C-S5 with worse munitions
I can see that them being below 12.0 will be unfair for other Planes at that BR, the RMV being at 12.3 and the D-R1 at 12.0 would already be an improvement. It is in my opinion still unfair for them to face other Planes with ARH Missiles… Moving the 13.3 Su-30’s and maybe the J-11A up in BR would help with this and Other Balancing issues at these BR Ranges. So I guess the M2KD’s are mostly just lacking in AAM quantity.
Using tornados to keep strike mirages at an upper bracket is pretty daft, when tornadoes themselves should go down. Strike mirages do not have cannons. When they do have cannons, the flight performance degrades significantly. RMV could quite easily be 12.0, with the base being 11.7.
2 magics and no cannon (if you want half effective maneuverability) is not that threatening. Given the state of magics being kneecapped, they also just aren’t that much of a concern on any platform.
There are too many jets that just suffer
12.0 Kfir, the mirages, harriers around the BR, even all the non fox 3 f16s and many more.
Thats why the game has got old. Recent nerfs to PL12s and f16s has drastically reduced choice even more.
Just gotta choose from the very few jets that are still competative… the rest are just there for crazy fools who want a challange.
its a mirage 2000, even with the gunpods you still outcompete most things you fight, even average f16 players are defeatable
plus having 300rounds per gun on the D-R1 for DEFAs is actually amazing
at least before the BR really became a nightmare with su30 and f18 spam, the mirage 2000Ds were pretty good
source
im okay in the thing (better than in most planes I use, ive managed to clutch 1v4s multiple times, i wish i still had the replays they were truly miracles for me)
its the best plane for learning how to not waste missiles and only really firing when they have the best chance to do something
how so?
though we cant forget the most important part of the mirage 2000Ds, theyre probably the best looking two seater plane around
Average f16 players could be beaten by a vaguely supersonic brick.
so my point stands
just aim to get close and dogfight and just firing a missile at anyone better at the game than you (at least thats how it was a year ago, probably a bit harder now, unless youre in a downtier)
Strictly speaking the Mirage 2KDs are strike aircraft and are equally limited to 2x missiles. So Id actually call them fairly appropriate aircraft to actually compare and contrast the Mirages too. Especially when OP specifically talks about missile count.
If the argument is that the D-R1 with 2x Magic IIs and quite a decent overall FM can be 11.7, then the Tornado GR4/SLE should then go down to 11.3/11.7 as well.
Think you might have focused a bit too much on the skim part of skim reading. Tornado is most certainly above the rating it ought to be. Neither of these platforms are all too competent in air to air, nor particularly good at air to ground.
I did see you said that, but the most I would lower the Tornado GR4/SLE too is 12.0 at the moment and I think they would be largely fine there. Likewise now the GR1 is 11.3, it feels okay. Id say the overall biggest issue with both besides compression is the lack of strike aircraft gameplay for either and the requirement to be semi-capabale in A2A combat. Mirages are likewise the same.
So. Id return to my original point of:
Strike platforms with such substandard air to air efficacy should not be facing ARHs. Especially strike platforms that have such lacking air to ground capacity. RMV can contest them, but really shouldn’t be facing the threats it currently does. 12.0 resolves it. 11.7 is fine for the base, it does not present enough of a threat without HMS to be all that problematic.
This could be resolved by y’know, sound decompression, but in the absence of that I’d like to play my pretty mediocre strike aircraft without being forced to not engage with air to ground because of spamraams. Alternatively, we could fix it so short range AAMs are actually as threatening as they should be, which would present the case that mirages are presently fine.