Would you know where the Dassault archives are located?
Afaik it’s at their Saint-Cloud office
Hey, I was just wondering, maybe we should open a new mirage 4000 thread instead of continuing on the 2000 one, just to keep things clean
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this would be better than talking about 4000 in 2000 thread.
Late 80’s then similar to entry in service than C variants,…
Therefore, it should recieve C suite not -5F because the -5F suite was developped through the late 90’s.
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With 1.47 TWR you can use those low capacity fuel tanks, since it allow you up to 10 Magic’s-2.
(Those Fuel pods are possible to be used on the 4 internal wing point)
And so i can have 2xs.530D 6 magics thanks to those.
No,… the Mirage 4000 was only using Bombs/Fuel tank/laser guidance pod on central pod(s)
However the abiltiy of the Mirage 4000 is up to 4x S.530 (sharing the 4 inner wing pylons)
The Mirage 4000 was deemed capable of using up to:
14 IR AAM (which is visible on some charts thanks to some TER fuel tank pylons on the 4 inner wing pylons) → 10 in warthunder should be the maximum possible since we do have a photo of a dual R.550-2 fuel tank pylon.
4 S.530F or D, since the Combat system is based on Mirage 2000C abilities (no MICA possible)
And a lot of possible bombs.
So you do basically have for AA role, either one of those max loads.
4 S 530 + 2 Magics
2 S.530 + 6 Magics
10 Magics
What about this then ? Proposal only but never actually done i guess. However that proves they had plans for it.
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Well the plan was change to do a 4x s.530 on wing pylon,… capability remains the same.
Well, even if plan changed and that you can only take 4 Super 530, it still make more sense in a air superiority loadout to take 2 Super 530 under the fuselage and 2 under the wings than taking 4 under the wings and doing nothing, outside of one fuel tank, of the massive area available under the fuselage.
By taking 2 super 530 under the belly you can take double the fuel tanks with the same ammount of missile, or you can take even more magics, allowing 4 Super 530 and 4 magics, 6 magics if we take the double magic and fuel tank pod, althought this does not seems as a practical solution, fuel tanks are made to be thrown away when entering in a dogfight.
Also whe saw this pod only in the inner wing pilon and nothing tell us that it can be mounted on the middle wing pilon, we can clearly see in theses two pictures than the middle wing pilon, if it can take the Super 530, it is not able to take the same ammount of weaponry overall than the inner wing one, so it cannot take the same ammount of weight. (althought it can, and is likely, also be a lack of space between the outer wing pilon and the middle wing pilon, they are closer to each other than the middle wing one is to the inner wing pilon, you can see it on the third picture)
So it is likely not able to take the fuel + 2 magics pod on the middle wing pilon.
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Im really REALLY hoping for a Mirage 4000 premium because I love the M2K and Rafale, but not enough to subject myself to any of the French air tree’s premium, never mind normally grinding it
You just show 2 charts that are completely different from to another.
You also drop me your Bullshit about putting 2 s.530d on ventral pylon, when the picture of REALITY shows 4 S.530 on wing pylons,…
And,… to be honest with you,… even your 2nd charts shows up to 14 IR missiles,… so you’re proving yourself wrong,…
A 4000 Premium will just disrupt any possibiltiy to have a French aircraft on par with Early F-15’s/Su-27’s,… until Rafale
At best, we can add some UAE Mirage 2000-9 (and then delete stuff that shouldn’t be on -5F,…)
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The aircraft never flew in french operation nor would the setup that comes to the game be true to life as it didnt even have an RWR and I dont think a repeat of the YaK-141 should ever happen, the jet fits all the criteria’s for being a premium and would be a fantastic premium to boot.
As for complaints of not having anything “on par” with the “early” F-15’s or Su-27’s, this literally isnt unique to France.
Germany, the UK, Sweden, and Italy all lack something “on par” with those aircrafts, if by “on par” you mean “a heavy fighter with larger weapon loads and similar performance”, as the EFT is beyond them in capabilities while the Gripen is more F-16 class than F-15/Su-27 class. France and the Mirage 2K are in the same boat as the Gripen while the Rafale is in the same boat as the EFT.
Also, considering the proposed performance and weapon loads, the Mirage 4000 doesnt seem quite “on par” as “superior in most/every way in WT” in hindsight, so its pretty disingenuous to be parading it as a “solution” when it would in itself be causing more problems for everyone else than anything. It should be a premium once we are already into the Rafale airframe in-game.
That isnt to say the M2K is a bad aircraft, and if thats what you’re implying so as to
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The first chart is an early 80’s one when the second one is from the 1987 Paris air show, using theses two pictures alow us to see what is possible and considered, and if you look at it with more attention that just throwing it away like an angry children that don’t like to be contradicted, you can see a lot of common points in the ground attack weaponry, pods and fuels tanks, it’s nearly identical.
In fact even in the air to air weaponry, they are not really conflicting each other, because the only thing different is that the two middle wing pilon are not used for air to air weaponry in the first when it’s the fuselage that is not used in the latter. So theses two charts can be combined to have a better picture of what would be possible to mount on the Mirage 4000.
Also, not a single Super 530 was ever mounted on the Mirage 4000, so unless you provide a picture with the Super 530 mounted (and don’t confuse it with the AS30L), what you are saying about the “picture of reality” is pure fantasy. What allow us to know about the possible loadouts of Super 530 are the two graphic i’ve just provided.
I would also add that the 14 “advanced missiles” they are speaking about in the 1987 picture is what would become later the MICA (it does not say just IR missile like you are thinking it is), it was still in early development and was not yet named MICA, but it is what they where thinking about. In the end the Mirage 4000 was cancelled in 1988, so theses triple missiles pods where never developed and the first MICA was fired 4 years later, in 1992.
We can say that theses 14 MICA where, in 1987, a wish, not something ready, so for war thunder this is irrelevant.
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The thing about your point is that you clearly said that you want it without having to grind the tree, so we can see the bias behind the point you are making.
An original, unique and maybe competitive vehicle should NOT be behind a paywall, especially a 70 bucks one. It belong in the tree, where it will still attract money by making people paying a more or less copy pasted premium of something more common, like the current Mirage F1 C-200, to get it. When you are buying a premium vehicle, you are buying a way to grind faster, not something unique.
By wanting to put the Mirage 4000 behind an outrageous paywall, you basically want to rob all the French main of one of the planes they are waiting for.
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I want the M2K and the Rafale, the M4K would just be a really interesting vehicle to purchase and use to grind.
“Maybe compeitive” lol. A TWR exceeding that of all other 4th gens, a low wing loading, ludicrous missile loads, its dubious this thing could be balanced if it ever came prior to the introduction of gen 4+ aicrafts. As for “unique” thats LITERALLY what premium vehicles are supposed to be, unique vehicles, prototypes, special variants, etc… not lawn chair copy pastes and camo net copy pastes of TT vehicles.
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Too bad it’s gonna be an event vehicle and likely far more than $70 because of this booty mentality.
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real. IS7 2.0 incoming
Well, you’ll be waiting over 2 years since we’re no where near rank 9.