Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-29 Fulcrum - History, Design, Performance & Dissection

Well not quite. Its actually more logical than it seems as the developers started off correctly with the MiG-29. But then went off the handle the moment they decided to give the 9-13 in the middle of Update Apex Predators this science fictional R-27ER that a child could only imagine.

Gaijin initially planned to go with the initial production 9.12, makes sense. However, as they learned from the MiG-23 etc. the Initial production 9.12 did not have countermeasures. So, Gaijin decided to skip 3 production batches of MiG-29 & gave us the 9-13.

The initial production MiG-29 based on 924 test bed, ventral fins, short flush rudder chords, lower thrust class in the first series of the RD-33, instantaneous alpha is limited to 21-22 degrees, lacks forebody vortex generation & no R-73. As depicted at the bottom.

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Gaijin gave us the 9.13 and 9.12A to give us countermeasures, but they forgot to upgrade the flight models to those very standards. They then screwed up further by modeling every single Mig-29 after the initial pre-production 9.12 that killed several pilots and a test pilot, the VVS & TsAGI ordered all existing and production aircraft have their angle of attack combat override feature in the SOS-3M disabled (17kg of stick force to override) as well as reduce the permitted angle of attack to reduced from factory 24 degrees AoA to 21 during investigation and while the manufacturer correct the design flaw.

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The first stage of corrections for production 9.12 was based on the 919 prototype and corrected the fatal design flaw of the initial production. Because this was not considered upgrade or modification by the VVS, but merely a correction to a design flaw. Therefore, it was still considered within the same production run of index of 9.12.

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By 1984, however, the automatic bank corrector in the rudder control circuit had passed its trials and was introduced on production aircraft, rendering the ventral fins unnecessary; besides, they complicated access to the engine cowlings. Most early-production MiG-29s had the ventral fins removed in service.

The increased-chord rudders tested on the sixth prototype and introduced on late-production aircraft were also associated with high-alpha handling. Large rudder deflection in order to counter bank at high AOAs proved inadvisable, as the pilot had difficulty in bringing the rudders to neutral position manually in the event of an autopilot or actuator failure. The solution was to reduce rudder deflection in this
mode and compensate for this by increasing rudder area. Another change made on late MiG-29s was the ailerons set at 5° upward deflection in the neutral position to improve the spin recovery characteristics further.

This late 9.12 production MiG-29’s AOA limit set by VWS imposed a 24° limit, just to be on the safe side.

So critical angles of attack to 26-28" where obtainable, but the customer played it safe and demanded that this parameter be limited to the figure of 24°, as recorded in the Technical Assignment.

Late production 9.12 are based on 9.19 prototype, increased vortex lift with addition of forebody vortex generator, automatic steering for rudder deflection and anti-hang mode for ailerons ACS. AoA was incrementally increased to 24 degrees. No countermeasures and no MiG-29 in game comes from the late product index 9.12.

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If it’s hard locked to 24 AoA…then how am I able to get more than that in 2 different control modes?

Y’all remember when the MiG-29 was 11.7?

What a time that was.

We have the 9.12A, B, G & the 9-13. None of them have their flight model added to war thunder. They perform as the initial production 9.12, but with countermeasures & the magical, high off boresight, full 360 capable, hypersonic but still medium range & analog R-27ER.

instantaneous angle of attack was increased to 26 degrees in the SOS-3M and combat override was reestablished.

Late production 9-12 has a 1:1 thrust to weight ratio 1.14 & 26 degree instantaneous angle of attack.
(thrust to weight is measured at take-off btw)

NOT MODDELLED IN WT
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The MIG-29 aircraft has high maneuverability properties, achieved thanks to a significant increase in its thrust-to-weight ratio and lifting properties.

When the engines are operating in the “Full afterburner” mode during takeoff (HO, V0), the thrust-to-weight ratio of the aircraft is 1.14. The lifting properties of the aircraft ensure that in subsonic flight modes a normal overload of 9.0 units and a lift coefficient of 1.5 (the angle of attack is 26°) are achieved.

FEATURES OF OPERATION OF THE MIG-29 (9-13) AIRCRAFT
NOT MODELLED IN WT
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The following design changes were made to the MIG-29 (9-13) aircraft:

aerodynamics and control system have been improved;

The amount of pushback from the SOS control stick when the wing leading edges are deployed has been reduced. The pushback occurs at a position corresponding to a stabilizer deflection angle of -15° instead of -9°;

At Mach numbers less than 0.85 with the wing leading edges extended, the SOS system is set to 26°. WARNING. The permissible angle of attack of the aircraft without outriggers and with the missile launcher at Mach numbers

< 0.85 with wing tips extended 22°.

MiG-29G has greater that 1:1 thrust to weight, 26 degree instantaneous angle of attack

NOT MODELED IN WT


I ALREADY went over this with you.

Just because we can engage in juggling a combination of entirely separate control modes during a battle is irrelevant.

The 26 degrees of instantaneous angle of attack is the baseline performance (everyday use) of the 9-12A, B, G, & 9-13.

Its 28-30+ degrees for the MiG-29SD and SMT… Lol.
These are not edge of envelope performance reserved for emergency or combat either (the MiG-29 can literally double it in combat).

An operational capability & operational performance envelope is kind of supposed to be available to the operator at default. Not only after switching to two different control modes as you pointed. Do you understand why that is?

It is available by default. Do you not know how to use your controls?

If you must switch to a different control mode in order to achieve a particular flight characteristic or to expand a performance limitation that would otherwise be unavailable in standard control would not be defined as available by default, it is the exact opposite lol.

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The “different” controls mode is the default and only available option in the most realistic form of the game.

Also Gaijin added maneuver mode so you can spam AoA all you want in Flanker without having to turn mouse aim instructor off. Do you know that this option exists?

That’s the whole point of AOA button in real life Flankers.

Technically whole point was to disable fly-by-wire “just in case”

Exactly.

I mean, no one designed it deliberately to pull massive AoA, it was just a matter of precaution. FBW was a pretty novel concept and USSR in general used philosophy of giving pilot as much “manual control” as possible.

The MiG-29 has standard alpha performance, that is not modelled. It just that simple.

The MiG-29 has a combat override historically to achieve edge of envelope peformace, angles of attack beyond lift. Which is still not actually modelled either lol.

You still cannot obtain anywhere near the angle of attack with or without the stupid mode.

supermaneuvrability, vortex lift & angles of attack beyond lift was all the rage of the late 70s
for the US & Soviet and Russian & is combat doctrine and design literally found in the F-22. First shot capability, shoot a dude across the circle.

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SAS damping is default fly by wire / AoA limited modeling. In game that limit is around 28 degrees. Maneuver mode allows AoA in excess of 50 degrees.

Your specific issue is with the instructor limited AoA limit which is likely done due to trying to balance turn performance for energy retention in mouse aim mode. Mouse aim into 28 AoA immediately would make the plane even worse than it already is in Air RB.

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That is your theory, but it’s not actually relevant as there are aircraft that achieve operational 27-28 degree instantaneous angle of attack in standard mouse aim with no assistance with “maneuver mode.”

The truth is simple, GJ has modelled all MiG-29 in WT after the initial production 9.12 which has the same exact aoa limit. That is why they often refer to older 9.12 manuals too, even for serial modernized versions of the aircraft.

So if I understand correctly what was write here, so MiG-29 right now underperforming in game in terms of flying performance?

No. Ziggy has pet theory that all diagrams for engine thrust available in the flight manuals are wrong because of language surround FAA airworthiness certificate. (The aerial equivalent of a vehicle registration.)

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Correct way would be “wrong” in terms of flight performance, underperforms in some metrics, overperforms in others. But that’s nothing new and fair for like 90% of WT aircrafts

Except the AoA limit being set to 28 AoA in Damping refutes that. The Mirage 2000 also does not reach its AoA limit in mouse aim. There are probably other planes that also do not reach maximum AoA on mouse aim.

Mouse aim instructor limitation are not flight model limitations.

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