This is the Mig29 thread.
Please ping me in whatever thread you wish to discuss.
F-22 was created with only one goal and that was the get Air Superiority under any scenario, and even then USA only used 2D vectors instead of 3D.
Considering that its been well established that mig29A pilots have practiced manoeuvring at high AoA through the pitch kicker well past their standard AoA limit. And after the initial 29 A models all modernised 29’s and 27’s have come with not only fbw systems but also specifically have the capacity to deliberately disable standard limits to utilise Alpha way past 24 AoA. I think then that its reasonable to assume russian MOD finally saw the merit to high alpha capability and would train at least some of their pilots to utilise these expanded flight envelopes.
Yes & that is why it has thrust vectoring. Without it, the Raptor cannot gain air superiority under EVERY scenario against its known enemies.
The Su27 Flanker.
You are defeating your own argument.
Well, regardless of high maneuverability being useful or not, the fact is that both the 29 and the su27 are high maneuverable IRL, which they lack ingame
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You’re just empty talking.
Thailand Gripen’s dumped on Chinese Flankers in combat training without any Thrust Vectoring abilities, whats your excuse for that?
Ok, so? Philippine Air Force killed a F-22 with a FA-50
These training exercises place fighters at different odds. Some starting in a chase. Its only training & the rules of engagements are classified. Means nothing
Please tag me in appropriate thread. This is mig29 thread I will not reply on the matter unless its related.
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On the gripen x j11 duels you guys are talking about bvr or wvr?
wvr
bvr
Like how Su-27’s fancy maneuvers means nothing in actual combat scenario? I agree.
Im also waiting your response for my latest F4F ICE reply, you claimed that both planes cannot be at same weight and stated that F4E cannot have internal gun due to having large,old electronics.
Today the situation and possibilities are different, but Russia suffered for many, many years from the fact that pilots had very few flying hours and practiced manoeuvre combat minimally and if so very limited.
Thus the use of manoeuvres in high AoA was practically minimal. On the other hand US pilots ( I am not a US fan) were much better at it.
I’m not talking now about the use of “super maneuverability” at higher speeds. That was not practiced at all - too risky.
I was reffering to VVR fight that contains additional information, according to other report flankers Lost to Gripen’s where Ir missiles didnt used, in other scenarios however Flankers dumped on Gripen’s Due to R-73 advantage.
And HMD advantage.
HMD+R73 is pretty much standart thing for Russian based Jets, thats why i didnt mentioned in the first place.
Yes, the Thai Gripen didn’t have that.
but according to this source it was using pl8s, those don’t have thrust vectoring if i’m not mistaken, the duel happened in 2015
Why are you so emotionally hurt over this.
The Flanker is aerodynamically perfected. China is investing in Flankers for a reason. They are more of a strategic threat than any gripen.
Gripens cannot equip powerful radars in their noses. Too small. They cannot hold extremely long-range missiles. They are little tactical fighters that are good for defense. They only have medium range missiles. Womp womp…
Not strategic conflicts over gigantic distances. They are inferior platforms for strategic operations. The americans can care less about who has Gripens. Its who has the capability to strike at insane distances. The Flanker & Su57 J20 is the main concern of the United States.
Not some dinky little fighter you can park in a car garage.
It wont be a problem for it in the future
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I agree the SMT premi for that nation would be pretty cool.
Considering that even these news that are biased against china said that the flanker won against the gripen in close quarters 16x0 with pl8s i’d say it’s pretty comfortable to think that the flanker can compete with the gripen in visual range duels, for the bvr part it seems that China couldn’t upgrade its pilot’s awareness properly, but i’d say the platform is quite good .
Ofc i don’t know which variant of each plane they used so that should be taken into account aswell
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Oh yeah, i think for sure the US pilots on average had way more practice in utilising high AoA manoeuvres - like you said, the russians historically had issues getting enough training into their pilots, hence the initial eversion to allowing high AoA stuff int eh first place since it required pilots to have greater capacity to control their jet properly. I’m more referring to talking in absolutes, as i think it would be pretty reasonable to assume they would have trained some of their best pilots in the use of higher alpha stuff considering they specifically developed their jets with that capability in mind. So in that regard saying it wasnt practiced at all is very likely wrong. But in general yeah i would imagine the majority of pilots, especially in less recent times would not venture past the standard limits.
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