MiG-29 with “right” radar has ability to use R-77. Where are they??
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ER has slightly wider motor. This is likely a R-27T
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How accurate is this?
A dumb theory from me but do you think J-11A aka Su-27Sk (with N-001 RADAR), has ability to use R-27ER, so Mig-29 9-12/9-13 can fire it too since two radar kinda the same ?
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Not in the nose of any NATO Mig-29 that’s for sure, as well as the ability to guide the ER.
Not anywhere, in any NATO aircraft they inherited at all whatsoever.
Brother, I do not have time to sit here until you are sufficiently convinced your pride is restored.
But you know a lot, it’s awesome to see die hard Soviet fans that care about history. But it’s not going to go anywhere like this. Again, like I said in my post. Its not technically possible, I have my reasons. But I also note that its is an utter historical disrespect to the Soviet Union & slap in the face of the Russian Federation to allow NATO aircraft to equip the R-27ER. They should get the R-73 now. Its only right.
I do not mind if the ER sticks around until Germany or Italy gets the Typhoon or something truly spectacular.
But it does not belong on Soviet 9-12 & 9-13s that did not get the upgraded radar free of NATO corruption & most definitely does not belong on any 9-12As of Warsaw pact nations who joined NATO either (unless Ukraine does & finds its way to WT) the others did not receive Russian support to obtain ER capability & only very few were actually produced because of the dissolution of the USSR anyway. The upgrades are only available to allied states of the Federation. The Federation uses & invest in advanced Flankers, Mig-31s, 5th & 6th generation projects. They do not need to upgrade their existing 9-12s & 9-13 that are just sitting there & will never be as capable as the modern Flankers anyway.
None of their Mig-29s that are upgraded have conducted any Frontal Aviation assignments in Ukraine whatsoever that I am aware of, because the Flanker fills all roles the Mig29 can do. That is why there was simply no need to continue the upgrades after the Dissolution. The Flanker is king.
This argument won’t even matter when active missiles come full swing & especially this exact time next year. No one is going to be worried about the ER overperforming it will be brought down to R-27ET realistic performance & hopefully both Improved in high altitude where there is underperformance. Of course, hopefully removed as well from or any none upgraded Soviet 9-12 or 9-13… (unless advanced export variants, we should keep those special).
We do not even have the actual Product 9-13S. That is only proven Soviet made variant (besides the Mech) to equip the ER. We got the wrong Product that is why the ER were never given the R-27ERs at release, nor was it ever intended until the 9-13 game efficiency data came in & convinced GJ it was crap with just R60Ms & R27s against the F-16s & F-14. Also, the FM was still lacking (still is imo), but I digress.
[Development] MiG-29 (9-13): the Fulcrum - News - War Thunder
We do not even have the old school iconic Soviet Product 9-12 yet & you guys think that it too should immediately get 1990s+ R27ERs too, but no R73s? That wacky as hell.
Anyway, hope you are having a nice day. Catch you later.
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I don’t understand at all what you want to take away from the MiG-29 R-27ER?
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… Yes the radar changed. The hardware on the missile did not. The only difference is a new booster. So answer my question… What prevents the radar from guiding the ER vs normal R?
It sounds like you’re saying the ER requires a different set of frequencies to guide which is untrue. It is a receiver… it picks up whatever frequencies it was encoded to pick up at launch within the 10-20Ghz band. This is why it works on several different platforms and with several different radars. The hardware for guidance and homing is identical on both missiles.
Quit dodging the question
Ziggy!..There has never been 9-13S in Ukraine…there are only 16 of them, they are all known, they are all in Russia…
- The date of independence of Ukraine is August 24, 1991 …
- The first experienced 9-13S entered GLITZ in early 1992…the first serial in 73 IAP in March 1992…
3.In your photo, for example, MSN: 2960731232…this is 9-13…
Spoiler
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For Soviet historical respect & accuracy and most importantly to give the R73 to it. The Rightful missile over the ER all day long.
This will actually keep the special the 9-12A export models that did receive ER & R-77s unique & special. Because they are. This will also open us up to receive more Mig-29 models. Having one or two fake ones that can already do everything does not spread “Mig29 influence” throughout the BR range out & encourage GJ to model us more. There are still more Soviet & post-Soviet variants out there as well as special export variants like the Serbian one I shared.
Additionally, the Soviet Mig29s were not BVR platforms (Federation Mig-29s are a different story), They were highly kinetic, “in your face” massive thrust to weight, high alpha agile little dogfighters with revolutionary OEPS IRST passive detection & tracking with an HMS to compliment high off boresight missiles that NATO & the US notes are superior at the time & highly specialized missiles for dogfighting. To such a degree it changed doctrine moving forward.
If they get the jump on you, you cannot outrun them & you must dogfight them & no actual pilot ever wants to dogfight any Fulcrum knowing they have the performance, HMS & R73 missiles. The longer a fight drags on more of their massive thrust to weight kicks & they know the Mig-29 is always going to be lighter and run down the fuel before you & will stay in the fight longer than you regardless.
They can just land in a random field somewhere after they kill you with no harm to the jet. Get picked up or have the nearest FOB bring them a fuel truck & maintenance personnel fill it up & take off again. Depending on the situation they can even bring a truck to rearm the jet too.
That was what feared the West about them. Not a missile that was never deployed on any Mig29 until the 9-13S & that took place practically the very moment dissolution of the USSR had taken place. The Su27 had already been the star anyway & taken the spotlight away with the amount it carries.
To not give the R-73 to the Mig-29 9-12s & 9-13 of the Cold War is a crime against Mikoyan to the degree of treason as far as I am concerned lol.
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There are more than 16 of them brother. 16 was the number produced in 1991 at MAPO in 1991 outright.
That means from scratch. Not counting the existing 9-13 models that received upgrades before & after the dissolution took place
In fact, today Ukraine has received all former Slovak 9-12SD (MiG-29AS) and MiG-29UB…as well as an unnamed number of MiG-29G (I wrote about them in detail already on the new forum…we should try to find it)…
Словакия передала Киеву обещанные истребители МиГ-29 (topwar.ru)
МО ФРГ подтвердило разрешение Польше передать Украине полученные из запасов ГДР МиГ-29 (tass.ru)
Most likely, Bulgarian 9-12A, but there is no documented confirmation…
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So what changed on the R-27R/ER besides the booster that suddenly prohibits the ER’s use on the N019?
You didn’t answer that question
I did not write here about the export ones (I have a registry with all serial numbers)…I also gave the dates-The Beginning of Operation…
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Реестр МиГ-29 (archive.org)
About the Ukrainian ones separately here, according to Russian and Western data…
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Forgot to post this part too.
You are already wrongfully calculating that only 16 Mig-29S (9-13S) ever existed & ALL of them are known.
That is not true at all. Neither the first 19-13S making an appearance in 1992. Perhaps the first serial produced from scratch did, but upgraded in any capacity is unknown. Sources range from two dozen machines to two full-fledged regiments off a three-squadron composition. The sources all agree on one thing its more than the 16 made from scratch that you claim.
Additionally, you are not counting any 9-12 airframes upgraded with the N019M radars and have the ability to use ERs :)
As in the case of Ukraine, they are a non-NATO state, they had access to the Su27 & the N001mech radar since day one. They also manufacture the R-27. They were left Mig29 variants of sorts & did business with the Russian federation quite closely after the dissolution on & off over the years.
However, they STILL cannot use the R-27ER outside of the Su27 & specific Mig29 variants. Its only proving my point even further. You know what, forget about the 9-13S then.
The only picture I have been provided of a Ukrainian Mig-29 using the ER is a 9-12 airframe anyway.
Here is another MSN to look up.
Ukraine - Air Force MiG-29S (9-12S)
Reg: 102 white
MSN: 2960731225
Got two sources stating it’s a (9-12S)
Good luck!
Then why did you intentionally mislead as if there is only 16 (9-13S) in existence?
Why can’t people just be honest on the forum? We are not out here discussing for likes & money.
@MiG_23M certainly thinks he is & its high stakes or something.
So you won’t (can’t) answer my question it seems
I guess it’s a game of posting nonsense and then going on a long enough tangent that people might forget the prior nonsense…
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My apologies, but there are no games are being played with you whatsoever.
I just find what you have to say or think as totally irrelevant.
Run along I am sure you have something to wipe down, clean or shine.
So as I was saying, the 9B-1101K seeker of the R-27R and R-27ER operates on the 10-20ghz (I/J band) portion of the EM spectrum.
Any radar capable of guiding the R-27R can guide the R-27ER because the seeker and guidance systems are identical.
The only hardware change is the booster which does not preclude the use of the ER on any platform.
This is why your line of argumentation is not a valid one for the removal of the R-27ER from the MiG-29 series 9-12 and 9-13. Interestingly, the removal of that weapon from these aircraft is something I have been for since its’ introduction. You’ve come up with so many weird reasons for its removal and haven’t acknowledged any of the legitimately good ones… like the multipath meta or performance compared to peers ordnance.
The N019M Topaz is not the same “guidance system” as the N019 Rubin, you have no idea what you are talking about.
The N019M Topaz can guide R-77s does this now mean all Mig-29 radars can launch R-77s? Because in your narrow mind they are “the same radar & guidance system”?
The N019M Topaz is the only proven radar modification of N019 series to guide R-27ERs. You cannot find a single source or even a picture of a Mig29 that has R27ERs & is not upgraded with such. All pictures are proven to be Mig29s upgraded to the Topaz standard or has a Zhuk radar in it.
Your dismissed.