Excuse my ignorance but I couldn’t quite catch what you said, but I suppose you mean that the MLD should be rating better at 33° and lower compared to other 23s, due to the higher alpha and yaw stability? But this isn’t the case in WT
No, the other MiG-23’s were unable to efficiently sustain high G turns at less than 45 degree sweep because of the lateral instabilities. “Tightening down” (Pulling harder on the stick) would cause uncontrolled lateral disturbances that could have led to flatspin or stall.
In real life where there is no instructor, it was simply too dangerous for the other MiG-23’s to sweep the wings forward more whereas in-game they can all sweep full forward with no fear of stall.
Thanks to the MiG-23MLD’s changes, it was safer to sweep forward to 33 degrees and sustain high G turns. It was not “better” than the other models at this, only better at higher angles of attack beyond sustained turns.
Ahhh thank you for the clarification, it makes much more sense now.
I will say though, why does the MLD in WT fall out of the sky when doing sustained turn rates, compared to the ML and MLA that can sustain 7G at around 650-700 kph, and not lose any speed, while losing little altitude per second.
The MLD when trying these maneuvers first maneuvers much more tightly but then it just falls out of the sky and can’t retain the energy like the other 23s, why would this be? If the MLD is just an MLA with some performance enhancements wouldn’t it still be either the same or slightly better?
It is possible it is slightly underperforming but I do not have access to the MLD addendum of the MiG-23ML manual yet. Someone online has it though and refuses to share it so I suspect it might actually result in a nerf.
The ML/MLA still overperform though, likely the MLD as well.
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I know this is an old post but I’m curious, where did you get these numbers for K/D ratio? Really wanna use it as I really hate using Wikipedia for proof of anything or as a source.
not really, tho. not MLD at least
After the nerf to the Mig-23s was applied, it was IMMEDIATELY changed and they were buffed to, again, ahistorical levels. They are still wildly overperforming.
when they first nerfed them, they nerfed them to much, (MLD loses to F-4) witch makes no sense.
this was on the dev server, when the update dropped it was changed because again they nerfed them to much.
also after the update dropped there was a bug that caused the wing sweep to be wrong at X speed.
This isn’t really true, it is on average around 10% off and at most around 15% off depending on conditions. While this was worth the report - it has been reported and Gaijin hasn’t done anything about it yet.
Odd that no one besides myself still points out how the F-5E outperforms the real life F-20A and subsequently the F-20 is overperforming as much as 50%. People tend to be far too selective about what they complain about. It’s somewhat hypocritical.
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Based
indeed they do
also the radar is bugged rn
I mean, it is the Mig-23 thread, not an F-5 thread, altough I’ve seen that one as well.
15% is already wildy overperforming to me, that’s a pretty big percentage and advantage it shouldn’t have. Anything above that is just insane if allowed.
The JAS-39 overperforms by a similar or higher percentage, 200% if you’re talking about specific excess power. The F-16 overperforms by 200% in available AoA and has no instability or common asymmetrical departure symptoms. Thing can literally do cartwheels mid-air and recover in a quarter of a turn.
I could literally list a couple other aircraft with worse overperformance issues every single reply for the next week.*
*Provided the number of replies is less than about half the vehicles in the game
On the topic of the MiG-23, the changes were made but did not consider other issues. The flight model lacks sufficient features to properly model the MiG-23’s stall characteristics. To do this would require some method of adjusting aerodynamic values based on the wings “flutter”. The wing tips vibrating or flexing with the torquing moments in a turn can cause loss of lift, separation of airflow, instabilities that create buffet and thus unplanned lateral motions.
These features are what made the aircraft so unpredictable and hard to fly with the wings further forward in real life. It is what would make the real life TA-152H complete doodoo in a maneuvering fight. It is these features that deteriorate the turn rate performance of the aircraft as mentioned in the documentation.
Not accounting for this - the turn rate is a little higher in-game. This isn’t unusual, often Gaijin responds one of two ways to aircraft with departure symptoms. In the case of MiG-23 and F-16 they made them far too stable and thus both overperform slightly in certain areas. The MiG-23 more so in turn rate because of the aforementioned issues. The other method is to match very specific criteria an aircraft was known for - the Su-27’s Cobra for example. Adjusting the FM to allow the Cobra has caused them to overlook other areas such as specific excess power which is severely underperforming now on both Su-27 & MiG-29.
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Much more than 10-15%
From my point of view 7 seconds to perform a full circle is a huge difference.
The first FM version on the dev server had correct sustained turn rate, then they applied buffs because the Russian players complained too much and now it’s overperforming a lot again.
Devs even said that its instantaneous turn rate was fine when Russian players tried to report it, but as I said people just cried too much about the FM changes, so they had to artificially buff it.
At this point I came to the conclusion that physics in Russia doesn’t work like in the rest of world.
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You should do the report using the normal overload Ny, because turn time can vary with pressure. temperature and other shit. Also, in the MiG-29 manual, some turn times were calculated wrong.
MiG-23 is still over performing by quite a bit, just saying this because it would be more likely for your report to be accepted
edit: by quite a big bit it seems, difference at mach 0.55 seems to be ~0.6G, which is very considerable.
I mean I would be frustrated too if my premium had such a drastic nerf… this is really gaijin fault and no one else.
There’s a lot of aircraft still over performing, and some have a completely wild fm, it’s not just Russia
26-23 = 3s
33 - 29 = 4s
Where is the 7 second difference?
It is the same reason they haven’t even attempted a nerf on the F-5E, preferring to rely on tertiary sources as an excuse for not modeling it after the primary source material… actually crazy.
It is very significant. Tested at mach ~0.55 and it is doing 13% better. (Ny in game is ~5.75, it should do ~5.1).
Did the test with the MLA thought, so one should multiply the 5.75 value for (MLA mass/ML mass) (difference should be very small if I remember correctly thought)
Does anyone have access to the MLD manual also? Slats go a long way in helping with STR at AoAs above ~10 degrees
33 - 26? is 7s
33 - 26 is 7s at 500km/h
29 - 23 is 6s at 700km/h