MiG21MF/SMT and MiG23ML/MLAs are undertiered

MiG21s have way too much performance to just sit at 10.3 against an array of planes that totally depend on you not paying attention or you fully committing to a minute-long dogfight to frag you. MiG23 ML and MLA are cracked, with insane speed and insane missiles paired to an insane radar. The fact that MiG23ML is going to frag with r24r’s more than mig29 with r27s is just stupid. And the people that go wöe wäh the f-5 is op, no it’s not OP for a mig21 SMT or a MiG23. You can just not engage it at all, or you can engage it in a quick one circle (mig21 smt) it can’t escape, learning to sit on people’s tails (f-5 cannot run away like mig21 does) or do a vertical rate fight where the f-5 has no chance at all because even if it decides not to engage you can totally catch up at all. Things like the Viggen or mirage F1C make no sense at 11.3 either. F-4J has a lot of missiles and a sensitive radar that can’t reliably lock onto anything below 20km while having the flight performance of one of the worst 9.3 planes you can imagine, unable to out dogfight anything else that has a single working neuron.

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If only that,… MiG-21F-13 and PFM also are undertiered, but so are A-10/Su-25/A-6 and all other attackers with IR all-aspects.

However i do not agree on F-4J it doesn’t have perfs of 9.3 aircraft,… that’s just wrong.

the f13 mig21 is booga dooga doo and a straight downgrade from the mig19. Not only is as fast below 3km, it also has a single nr30 that does less than a deadly crit, the pfm is an spsk with two r3s so yes it’s fairly undertiered but not as much. These planes rely a lot on situational awareness, but that is no longer possible because whatever shows the black dots on the screen even while untagged no longer works. A10 works accordingly to the propaganda, and if people think that something that shrugs off 13mm gunfire should not just survive a sparrow but also return to airfield or shrug off 3x 30mm rounds up close is delusional.

Also, I invite you to 1v1 someone t2 vs f4j, t2 is already overtiered, now go play guessing games.

Well if you turn fight a T-2 then you’re making mistkes,…

F-4 never intended to be Turnfighters anyways…

I have T-2 and even F-1
I have F-4’s of different kinds

If you turnfight with an A6M2 zero, do you think you’ll win? No,… because it’s not your strenght by design,…

Now does this means F-4J should be 2.3 BR ?
No,… because the strenght of F-4’s are elsewhere,… is like seeing people willing to have F-4C at 9.3 because it have no flares and “bad” missiles,…

That’s the way people are representing aircraft that is wrong,… you’re forcing caracteristics that are not the ones you expected it to have, but minimize the quality of all-other features.

The effect behind it is that people don’t search good features of aircrafts, because “bad” players are showing them that the aircraft is bad in their hands,…

For exemple, considering to non-turnfighter aircrafts stats:
F-4E
You have : 1.3 KD out of 296 games
While i do: 1.7 KD out of 150 games

F-4C
You have : 1 KD out of 199games
While i do: 1.6 KD out of 302games

F-104A
You have : 1.3 KD out of 217 games
While i do: 2.2KD out of 109 games

So,… i’m certain you’re not a good player of Energy fighters/speed fighters.

I have T-2 and even F-1
I have F-4’s of different kinds
If you turnfight with an A6M2 zero, do you think you’ll win? No,… because it’s not your strenght by design,…

idk what are you talking about. It’s not all about turning. It’s also about nose authority, wing load, energy maneuverability, type of gun (mk11 is the worst supersonic gun currently) and much more importantly: survivality. The T-2 can survive past a head on, the f-4j cannot. It’s slow, has the flight model of a bus and tends to snap it’s wings quite easily.

Now does this means F-4J should be 2.3 BR ?
No,… because the strenght of F-4’s are elsewhere,… is like seeing people willing to have F-4C at 9.3 because it have no flares and “bad” missiles,…

huh? the f-4j’s radar is worse than that of the mig23ml, which is also better than mirage f1c and viggen.

is like seeing people willing to have F-4C at 9.3 because it have no flares and “bad” missiles,…

the F-4C has good missiles but very bad radar and very bad flight performance.

That’s the way people are representing aircraft that is wrong,… you’re forcing caracteristics that are not the ones you expected it to have, but minimize the quality of all-other features.

yet again you’re just babblering around. Does this mean that because f-4j has good missiles the su25 with r73s is the best plane in game? 11.3 is a br where performance starts overriding good missiles, this ain’t 9.3-10.3 a-10 a6e su25 kind of BR where doodoofard planes thrive because their missiles are great, and even yet they still have the resources to thrive because nothing else outclasses their weaponry at their BR.

The effect behind it is that people don’t search good features of aircrafts, because “bad” players are showing them that the aircraft is bad in their hands,…

This is not about how the planes handle, this is about certain planes being outclassed in every single aspect other than the missiles at a BR where the performance multiplies times four.

For exemple, considering to non-turnfighter aircrafts stats:
F-4E
You have : 1.3 KD out of 296 games
While i do: 1.7 KD out of 150 games

You probably played the f-4e while it was the king of it’s br or when the mig23 mld was added, fact is that f-4e’s four sparrows were a lot better than r24s and r60 rear aspect besides the fact that f-4e could totally handle an MLD one circle and tank as much gsh23l rounds as it wanted since the water pistol by then was dooga doo.

F-4C
You have : 1 KD out of 199games
While i do: 1.6 KD out of 302games

you probably started it before su25 and a10 spam. That kd is 90 percent gun kills, same as with f-4e.

F-104A
You have : 1.3 KD out of 217 games
While i do: 2.2KD out of 109 games

As with MiG19PT, I got to ignore subsonics on 104 as well because it was an imbecile mobile with little fairnes within the BR.

So,… i’m certain you’re not a good player of Energy fighters/speed fighters.

Well, play circus music cause the show starts now.
You’re 3.1 on F-5E, I’m 4KD. You’re 1.8KD on J7W1, I’m 1.9. You’re negative on the P38LO, i’m positive. You’re negative on Ki83, i’m above 2kd. You’re negative on P51H, I’m above 2KD. You don’t fly the J5N1, i’m above 3kd on it. You’re NEGATIVE on the la-15, i’m 2.7 constantly dealing with sea vixens and other BS mobiles. You’re negative on the f2h2 and i’m 1.4. You’re barely 1point something or negative on the rest of non turn fighters. You only seem to do good on planes that have formidable armament and okayish flight performance at br’s where everyone is busy trying to gun fight people, or even worse, probably using aircraft on ground RB to stat pad . Your KD on F14 Early is mediocre, your KD on Mirage 2000 is mediocre, as well as on F-16. You should dominate on these BR’s and yet you can’t. All you do is, instead of learning, spend the whole day sitting on the pc and barefacely telling people with 1/4th of your experience that they are bad while they’re actually better than you.

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