MiG 29's and Su 27's flight models

From what I know, mig 29’s flight model has been nerfed and is now much worse than in real life, to justify it having r27 er. Especially the mig 29smt is a boat I’ve heard. I don’t know about su 27, but I’ve heard it’s also underperforming/has auto flaps. Now with the addition of fox 3s, r27 er is no longer a problem simply existing on any plane, so I propose the following changes:
-make flight models of all mig 29s and su 27s realistic
-remove r27 er and r27 et from the base model su 27 and move it down to 12.3
-remove r27 er and r27 et from every base model mig 29, give them r73s, and move them up to 12.3 if needed (depends on how good the r73 + hms would perform at 12.0)
-remove r27 er and r27 et from the German mig 29g and move it down to 12.3

Without the r27 er, base model mig 29s are no longer bvr monsters at their brs (assuming no uptiers) and can have their real flight models. Mig 29 was designed to have r73s from the start, so all mig 29s should get access to those. The realistic flight model would still be overall worse than f16’s, but r73s with hms are much better than aim 9ls without hms, so it would probably have to go up in br. Maybe it wouldn’t have to though, r73s are in general easy to flare from a distance like any other ir missile and impossible to flare if they get too close. F16a adf, F15a and F14a/b on the other hand would have the advantage in bvr, aim 7ms are better than r27 r if i remember correctly, so are aim54s.

The r27 er could still stay in the game, but as a kind of side grade to r77, having better kinematic performance, and having inertial guidance and data link like fox 3s, but still being a fox 1 missile. Like it was in real life.

Right now bvr at top tier is hopeless if you don’t have fox 3s, especially in sim where you have a constant 12.0-13.0 br bracket, so I imagine mig 29 9-12 players are suffering now with their bad flight models. They really should separate fox 3 capable planes from the rest, just like cold war tanks should be separated from ww2 tanks.

I have only played American top tier planes and haven’t played any other top tiers yet (I didn’t buy mig 21 s for nothing), so mig 29s having a bad flight model was a kind of karma for having the r27 er. However, I’ve always wanted just an accurate representation of real life, not bias to one or the other side. In my opinion, if things like flight models, missiles and time periods don’t accurately represent real life, all these efforts for balance become pretty meaningless. Russians dominating Americans in bvr is dumb and the reverse of real life, but so is mig 29 flying like a boat and not being a threat in a dogfight. Balance in this game shouldn’t be about misrepresenting history, but only skipping the parts of it that are hopelessly unbalanced.

Edit: I don’t know really what to do with the German mig 29g, it can’t fire r77s and the only reason Gaijin added it was so that Germany has 2 mig 29s, one with r60m and one with r73s (and so you have to grind more for r73). I guess it could be just a copy paste of the previous German mig 29 with tws.

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I left mig-29smt for gripen cz the flight model keep getting nerfed, will come back to 29 smt if the flight model is improved. also, even tho i don’t play german mig-29g deserve Fox 3. It’s horrible that German main only got Phantom for Fox 3 in this update.

this is a usamain skill optimalization bro lol

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MiG-29G doesnt even have radar capable of firing R-77s

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Really? I thought it could, it’s radar is pretty good, it has tws and all. I’ll correct the original post.

AIM-9M for F-16A/ADF and the F-14 Bomboclatt?
Just so it goes with them.
Just saying, it would be cool to see those changes for the Su-27 and MIG-29
At least model them according to DCS. (20-21 degrees turn rate for both the F-15C and Su-27)
This and some decompression to 13.7 right now would help a lot

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It’s a good idea, then all of the current 12.0s could be at 12.3 with equal missiles, mig 29 would make up for slightly worse flight model with hms.

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The R-73 would help it a lot

which jet has a better flight model between mig-29smt vs su-27?

Su-27, but its a low bar to beat.

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1- Su-27’s flight model is overperforming in engine power and has too much drag.
2- Mig-29’s are largely accurate.
3- No, Mig-29s need their R-27ERs in order to stay 12.0.
They shouldn’t be made 12.7 as you suggest.
4- No, Mig-29G should keep its R-27ER. It’d stay 12.7 whether it has it or not because it’s 12.7 because of R-73s, not R-27ERs.

Typical anti-Mig post that wants to ruin Germany’s Migs with nerfs.

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2 - Majority of opinions I’ve heard say otherwise, but I’m no expert on migs
3 - And why is that? R27 r would be balanced, slightly worse than aim 7m, but that’s not the end of the world, is it? R27 r still has inertial guidance and data link. Why do they need r27 ers to stay 12.0, if they had their flight models buffed and they got access to r73s? Even in the new meta these are quite strong features. The flight model would let you keep your energy and dodge radar missiles better, that’s a big thing now, especially at high altitude.
4 - In the new meta irccm missiles are no longer so powerful, to bring the plane’s br up 0.7 by themselves. Right now if you have access to fox 3s, you don’t want to take more than 2 ir missiles. Some people take 1, even though it’s asymmetrical.

If anything it’s anti-r27 er post, not anti-mig post, but mostly it’s a pro-realism post, which happens to ask for mig 29’s soul to be brought back.

It’s very bad actually, not slightly worse.

The 27R is worse than the 24R on the Mig-23 in the game.

In terms of range it’s Aim-7E2 levels

R-27R is equivalent to Skyflash and R530.
7M would be the only high-range SARH in the game at that point with no equivalents.
Mig-29s should stay 12.0, there are already Mig-29s with R-73s, the first ones don’t need them.

Perhaps it needs fixing then? Why immediately resort to the op missile that is r27 er? Again I’m no expert, but a newer missile being worse than the older one seems obviously wrong.

Edit: I just found that R27 r has no sustainer, it lacks 5 seconds of burn time. Seems like an easy fix and honestly I don’t know how did Gaijin miss that.

There should be no mig 29s without the r73s. Only some export ones weren’t fitted with them i think. R73’s development started in 1973 and it formally entered service in 1984, but was operational in 1982. Mig 29’s development started in 1974 and it entered service in 1983.

R-27T has less kinetic range than R-23T, that’s how trash the non E versions of R-27 are in the game.

Buff the r27 r and remove r27 er for MIGs and SUs without r77.

There should be no 9.12/9.13s with R-73s.
Stop trying to nerf the early R-73s by putting them to 12.7 with the others.

You already proved Mig-29s were in service before the R-73 anyway.

Stop trying to remove a SARH missile worse than all the ARHs just cause you never learned how to defeat SARH missiles.

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Then the Mig-29 should be 11.7, and su-27 12.3.

R-60M is no match for 9L at 12.0, and 7F is better than R.

R-73+27R will be worse than 9M+7F as well.

Not to mention the flight models.

Si-27/Mig-29 flight models are miles worse than F-16/15.

Hell, Su-27 without ER could be 12.0 with that garbage flight model and pathetic radar