Mig 29s 9-12 and 9-13 need to be reworked

[unluckyg]

@AlvisWisla

Glad you agree with us duelists.

-us duelists- lmfao

[Grossaaaa]

@Grossaaaa

The Mirage2000s have WAY better FMs, 2 Magic 2s and 530Ds

@Grossaaaa

@AlvisWisla

Mirage 2000 has a worse flight model.

That’s just plain wrong.

@Grossaaaa

Statshark shows the Mirage turning circle as tighter, what the fuck are you on about?

@Grossaaaa

Next time don’t leave out the bars description man, it literally shows that the M2K outperforms the 29 at basically all speeds.

@AlvisWisla

Mirage 2000 has a slightly worse flight model.

Gaslighting hard man.

[AlvisWisla]

In air modes.*
I never said 1v1s outside the graph which I said Mirage 2000 was better in.

[Leinadmix9_ツ]

@AlvisWisla

In air modes.*

No, you literally said flight model, dont gaslight us now when i quoted you here

[Grossaaaa]

You just edited that last paragraph onto that post man.

[AlvisWisla]

@Leinadmix9_ツ For air modes.*

Mirage 2000 is better in 1v1s, do you and @Grossaaaa agree with me or not?

[Grossaaaa]

As I expect.

[Leinadmix9_ツ]

@AlvisWisla

@Leinadmix9_ツ For air modes.*
Stop gaslighting the planet dude.
I’m seriously concerned why you hate the dueling community like this.

This is beyond bait and gaslight lmao.

@Grossaaaa i will invite you to a custom

[AlvisWisla]

@Leinadmix9_ツ
Apparently calling Mirage 2000 better in 1v1s makes you a gaslighter.
Sad.

[pooqich]

this thread is hilarious, razervon is never recovering from this

but for real though, mig29 without its signature weapon? thats a real shame

[Grossaaaa]

@AlvisWisla

Mirage 2000 has a slightly worse flight model.

@AlvisWisla

Would you look at that, Mirage 2000 sustains energy 1 degree less per second than Mig-29 9.13.

@AlvisWisla

They literally couldn’t be more parity, and fun-fact Mig-29’s energy retention only INCREASES beyond Mirage 2000’s the faster it goes because it gains ~46% more thrust, compared to the ~17% more thrust Mirage 2000 gets at the same speed.

@AlvisWisla

Thanks for admitting that Mig-29 is better by posting.

@AlvisWisla

Tighter turning circle is not a faster turn rate, and is irrelevant to air RB whose engagements are almost exclusively >550kph. The primary reason why the energy retention test can’t be done at higher speeds is pilot G-limits.

@AlvisWisla

Gross, I know you want to believe that Mig-29 9.12/9.13 is bad but it really isn’t. It’s the 2nd best 12.7 in the game right now only beaten by F-16A.

@AlvisWisla

lolno Mig-29 is not a bad airframe.

These are all the times you called the MIG-29 better than the M2K, or good overall.

Saying that the M2K is better now that you been definetely proven wrong shows how you’re gaslighting.

As to how it’s going with the duel, the M2K has been consistently cumbstomping the 29s.

[AlvisWisla]

@Grossaaaa
Yes, ALL in the context of AIR MODES, namely addressing RB and SB as I haven’t played air arcade with any of these jets.
Air RB cares more about speed and energy retention at speed.

And in the one instance I implied 1v1 is the Statshark graph showing the <450kph stats, and later made that implication explicit.

I’ve been calling Mirage 2000 better than Mig-29 in 1v1s since Apex Predators dev server, and doubled down in February of 2023. Granted that was on Discord servers at the time since I wasn’t a forum regular at that time.

So yeah, you haven’t proven my statements wrong.
My claims: Mig-29 is better in air RB and air SB.
Mirage 2000 is better in 1v1s.

I’m glad you agree with me that Mirage 2000 is better in 1v1s. Not sure why you’re claiming that to be wrong at the same time though.

We had a misunderstanding, I apologize that I wasn’t clear enough to be talking about air modes for all those statements, and I apologize it took me longer than it should’ve to explain the graph more.

[SidewaysCube946]

Appreciate it boss

[Grossaaaa]

The M2K is way better than the 29 in these modes aswell.

Magic 2s mean that anything within 2km rear aspect dies with near 100% certainty. 530Ds, while not as busted as the 27ERs are still very capable. 2 insane missiles, 2 good missiles, best FM for the BR.

[AlvisWisla]

Mig-29 goes mach 1.3 at SL, M2K goes 1.2.
20km HMD/ACM vs 19km ACM.
Both have TWS + lock target functionality.
M2K has more fuel time available.
Mig-29 has superior energy retention at higher speeds.
Mig has R-27T/ER + 4x R-60Ms.
Mirage has Magic 2s + R-27R equivalent missiles. 4 total, 2 more meta missiles.

I’m not saying Mig-29 is 0.3BRs higher than Mirage 2000.
All I’m saying is they’re sidegrades.
Mig-29 with R-73s is however objectively superior to Mirage 2000C5 and F-16ADF. 6 R-73s will always be better than 4 total missiles [when the airframes are this close for air RB], only 2 of which being equivalents to R-73/R-27T whichever your bias leans toward.

At no point did I ever mean to misconstrue Mig-29’s capabilities as anything other than equivalent in air RB.

---

To reiterate, and I very much do apologize for my part in our misunderstanding; I want the oldest Migs to have the lowest historical loadout for the lowest BR. I want R-73s and newer weapons reserved for Migs made after 9.13.
Just as I want AIM-9Ls reserved for F-16s made after Block 5, and am annoyed that Gaijin hasn’t added Block 5 yet.

[Leinadmix9_ツ]

You got it man

[noister]

Mirage 2000 has a slightly worse flight model.

Do you even play the game?

[noister]

MiG 29 with 3 r73 is fine at 12.7
mig29 fm is really bad like really.
for instance harrier gr7 is at 12.3 with infinite CM, MAW and 4 aim9m and even better FM than the mig29

so imagine a worse performing harrier gr7 in terms of fm, with less cm and no MAW. 2 more missiles which flat spin 50% of the time. still decent for 12.7 as this will make it lack any bvr capability

[unluckyg]

@AlvisWisla

Mig has R-27T/ER + 4x R-60Ms.

Are you really saying that you can’t dodge 2 r27er and 4 r60m? Is it really that hard? Cause you know, if you do that and merge with the 29, 9/10 times the 29 dies againsnt the M2K

[AlvisWisla]

That’s talking in the context of air RB.

This is no where close to being finished, but this is preliminary results for data relevant for air RB play, and yes it includes all BVR platforms and some IR only platforms.

Also there’s no such thing as a Mig-29 with 3 R-73s, there’s 6 or there’s none.
Harrier GR7 is not a supersonic fighter, it’s an objectively worse airframe than all supersonic aircraft for air RB.

@unluckyg
The air RB playstyle isn’t dogfighting.
BTW, I haven’t died to any radar missile in countless battles [no seriously, I don’t count my battles and can’t remember the last time I died to a radar missile].