MIG-23M/ML/MLD performance discussion

Just wondering given it’s been mentioned a couple times, does anybody have the turn rate diagrams for these aircraft?

1 Like

I have the full MiG-23ML manual, can upload the document later tonight or tomorrow and link it if you’d like.

iirc the sustained and instant turn rates are correct in 33-45 degree sweeps and low speed handling is correct for 16° forward sweep. There aren’t graphs for sustained and instant turns at max forward sweep so it’s hard to say if it’s accurate or not. And there are discrepancies in the FM that can’t be modeled or won’t be.

Such as; the aircraft should be MORE stable with full forward sweep interestingly, because in full back sweep wing tip oscillations can cause loss of lift and cause instability / inability to recover from spins, etc. Lots of interesting stuff.

1 Like

The aero manual only has sustained rates for 45 and 72 deg sweep, optimal sweep for the ML/MLA is 35 degrees and 33 degrees for the MLD. Manual states 13.5 deg/s sustained rate at 1000m altitude at 45 degree sweep, according to pilots notes for 35 degrees sweep you just add +2 deg/s. this is for about 50% fuel + 2 R-23 load

War thunder sadly doesnt let you have absolute manual control over sweep (in semi auto it forces the sweep to set back automatically instead of holding however I believe semi auto at 0% sweep at optimal corner speeds for STR it does set to the 30-35 degree sweep ballpark

theres also this image though from an old book not a manual for the 23MF:


Here is the ML with full 16° min sweep, showing sustained rates for all sweeps.

Seems I missed that graph. The version of the manual I have has each page as an individual jpg file that I need to click on so it’s annoying to look through. I’ll try to get it all scanned into a single PDF this week.

1 Like

graphic 6.15 also has sustained turn info if you want to have it converted into degrees/second

Ahhh I don’t have that; would be nice to see.

I’ll upload it tonight if he doesn’t.

1 Like


These don’t look like turn rate graphs? Because it isn’t turning at 60+ Deg/s, and equally isn’t taking 60+ seconds to turn. And it doesn’t pull 110 Deg AOA either? What is it showing.

It is time to complete a full steady (sustained) turn, solid lines are full power dashed are without afterburner power

for example the top graph, for 45 degree sweep at 1000m, the quickest sustained turn (lowest point in the graph) is completed in 26-27 seconds (lets say 26.5 for the sake of this), if you divide 360 degrees by the time it took to complete the turn you’d get 13.6 degrees/second which would be your STR in those conditions

Y axis is time, X axis is speed, lower time is better

Right, no 16° sweep sadly.

no, however most optimal sweep is 33/35 degrees for rate fighting, which if you use 0% wing sweep in WT at speeds of mach .8ish-mach .9ish the sweep will sit at around 30-35 degrees. Flogger in war thunder seems to perform fine flight model wise all in all, though its a shame its avionics are pretty poorly done

Also as I mentioned there is a section that describes stability. Currently the aircraft is too stable in full sweep, in real life there was instability due to wing tip oscillations. No big deal to be honest, but something they should consider in the future as being able to pull max elevator pitch with utmost stability with full sweep and using full sweep to recover from spins shouldn’t be a thing…

If thrust could overcome drag with full forward sweep it would be the most efficient but as you said, it has to swing back for most efficient rate at higher speeds and it does automatically in-game no matter the sweep setting.

Honestly I wish we could fully manually control wing sweep instead of having only a semi auto mode

Obviously as you know, never had auto irl lol

If I understand you correctly, you should turn on relative control in wing sweep.


He did. What he’s saying is that it’s semi-auto. If you set it to 0% and accelerate, at a certain point it will always start to sweep back.

1 Like

I have the manual in PDF form now but it says I can’t upload that file extension.

Here is a discord link for it.