Do that mean the mica em will be able to archive 80km instead of 50km?
I support any MICA buff, but does anyone fire these things past 30km at most? What’s the gameplay difference?
I couldn’t tell you how much more range it would get, only that it would get more range if it happened to get corrected.
Currently MICAs are not really viable for BVRs in its current state compared to AIM-120A or R-77-1. But even if you don’t really do BVR, having the MICAs range corrected would mean that it would have more energy to continue pulling in a close range situation as well.
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It’s time for a developer response to this MICA report.
@k_stepanovich Sorry to call you out, but I think you deserve to be part of this discussion.
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By the way, it should be noted that with the new dev server, the MICA EM is now going to be the shortest ranged fox-3s at the BR of 14.0
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Yeah, because R-Darter at least is a 13.7 Missile, not 14.0 Missile.
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Calling the best aircraft in-game “outdated” before the patch has even dropped is jumping the gun pretty aggressively.
I do agree the 12x R-77-1 with a PESA radar seems somewhat excessive, but the Rafale and MICA are far from the primary victims of this likely change in meta. Waiting for the patch to see how the meta evolves would be much more reasonable a response.
There’s also the point of the Rafale being significantly better at both climbing and accelerating compared to the Su-30SM, which allows it to have significantly more kinetic energy to impart to the missile at launch compared to the Su-30SM, as are most/all top tier jets in-game. When considering that fact its likely the R-77-1 will not provide range overmatch anywhere as significant as Dark_Claws chart would indicate, instead likely offering something more along the lines of parity.
Case in point, these are the times to speed of most of the major top tier jets at 10km alt starting from roughly M1.0 and accelerating up to M1.5.
And of note, I put all aircrafts internal fuel at 50% barring the Rafale and EFT, which I set to 75%, partially to give the other aircrafts a bit of a chance, partially to make it actually look worse for the Rafale than it likely would be, just to give you guys the benefit of the doubt, and partially due to the fact that the EFT/Rafale have better fuel economy.
In the above scenario, the Rafale is reaching M1.5 around the time the Su-30SM is reaching M1.34 (ignoring the fact the Rafale will be getting to altitude much quicker in the first place). So lets simulate shots with such parameters:
As can be seen above, the MICA vs R-77-1 impact parameters are significantly closer under such comparison.
If you are unhappy with some of the params I used, feel free to provide me some new ones (fuel loads, launch speeds, launch altitudes, etc… statshark cant do time to alt).
Keep in mind before y’all dogpile me over this, I’m not claiming the MICA isnt worse than the R-77-1, the R-77-1 is likely to be the new best missile in-game, I’m just trying to point out that the Su-30SM airframe is looking to be rather substantially inferior to its competitors, and as such the 77-1 may not be as unbalanced as it might seem off the bat.
PS: kinda flubbed the AIM-120B shot, as the EFT/F-15E have a superior time to speed than the Rafale and would therefore have comparatively superior launch velocities as well, but figured I’ll still include the AIM-120B shot in there for anyone’s curiosity).
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I do believe the mica should get the 80km range because of a simple fact, you won’t be able to respond to anyone shooting at you with fox 3.
Yes at 5-15km the mica em is the best because of tvc making it deadly but a skill player won’t enter the range, getting shot at by everything but never having a chance to hit anyone pass a certain distance is pretty meh… The rafale might just fall off the meta just because of that, also without mentioning two aircrafts are coming into the game with 12 and 14 missiles, 10 amraam and 12 r77-1 compare to the rafale 8 mica. It means after shooting all your mica’s the enemy will have 4-6 more missiles to shoot at you, that’s why we need it to be more deadly… If the mica happens to be buff, we trust you on your changes.
I used the same argument regarding the F-4F ICE and the Tornado F.3 Late, appealing that nerfs on the 120 were unfair for them as it was the only saving grace those planes had.
Gaijin nerfed it regardless. Many if not all ARH nerfs must be reversed if the R-77-1 makes it into the game.
I refuse to elaborate further, you can check the other comments i already did. But if i have to add something, Russia already has the best SAM, and the best AGM, and now it’s also getting the best performing AAM regardless of the platform? Gimme a break, then you guys yell that its excessive and a tinfoil conspiracy to claim that Gaijin tends to offer a… special treatment.
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The issue with CAS is glaringly obvious, but also somewhat unrelated. The jet will be great in GFRB regardless of 77-1’s. In air battles however, the russians have been on the weaker end for a while at top tier, having one of the worst ARH’s on subpar platforms.
What I’m saying is that acting like its the end of the world for the R-77-1 to be added, and specifically in this case, for tge french players who currently have the best jet for air combat, bar-none, to be complaining that its somehow unfair and renders the Rafale “obsolete” is laughably hyperbolic. Simply due to tge launch plateforms involved, the R-77-1 is unlikely to be significantly better than the MICA’s at the moment.
Its also possible im entirely wrong and they do turn out to be broken, and invalidate every other jet/missile ingame, but thats highly dubious, and if its the case, other nations missiles can be retroactively fixed accordingly. There is no need for a pre-emptive buff to the MICA.
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It isn’t unrelated, the game has been pushing through a general perspective, considering that most if not every plane have an impact for both ground and air modes. So it does matter.
And that’s the problem, most of NATO planes have already a set of compromises (EFTs with Brim 1s, US planes without their complete ordnance, etc.), yet the Su-30 will barely have such degree of limitations.
Speaking of hyperboles. They’re fine as long as you don’t play them as a front liner during games. And it’ll be the same for the Su-30 as it only has 4 DL channels. Im sure we’ll see cryouts the first days of patch because lil vlad won’t be able to DL most of its missiles.
That’s the exact same Gaijin said about the R-27ER from their competitors. Allow me to not give you the benefit of the doubt on both this and the previous quote.
No one has explicitly said that, i said that, once again, Russia will have an arbitrary edge on missile performance yet again, after 8 months of a relatively healthy meta where most of missiles were playable by their strenghs on valid circumstances.
No thanks, retroactive fixes usually happen after everyone is already burnt out. That is exactly what this post is about, preventing unfairness due to an arbitrary introduction.
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I agree with you saying that Rafale will not become outdated, still with the additions of the r77-1 just make it so that a fix of the mica missile should be made there is no longer any reason to have a nerfed missile that can’t at all even scare russian jets when they are high in the sky.
And honestly aim120c could come in game really soon because of the r77-1 with the amount of people which will begin to whine from nearly all nations about it.
Otherwise i would have prefered missiles like the r77-1 to come with like the su35 (From my understanding it would be a great plane minus sensor fusion) and with whatever eurofighter would be next with aim120c + rafale f4.2 with his mica ng to have a similar range (so ideally wait one more year for new missiles, add the f2 and other 4.5 gen plane missing this year and focus on fixing all of them)
Meanwhile the Derby crying in the corner
I mean well you should ask for better weapons if possible but as far as i get it derby with 50km is accurate, mica is not.
But last israeli planes got aim120 no ?
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No one even fires 120’s at this distance if they hope to hit anything. 25km is the absolute limit I’d ever let loose an aim120 and hope to hit anything.
Yeah they’re just the most dominant missile wvr where ARB battles tend to end up once the furball evaporates.
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Then I support it for the better medium-close range combat
To be fair, I’m not saying it is currently outdated, just that Gaijin should future-proof it so it doesn’t become outdated. Unfortunately as you may well know, Gaijin works at a snail’s pace, pun intended, so you have to work early to make sure a vehicle or equipment doesn’t fall behind.
Interestingly, your post showed that when accounting for the Rafale’s better flight model and the Su-30SM’s better fox-3 missile, the missile’s performance comes close. So one MICA from a Rafale equals 1 R-77-1 from an Su-30SM. However, it should not be dismissed that the Su-30SM has 4 additional R-77-1s PLUS 2 additional R-73s while the Rafale would have ran out.
So your post itself makes a strong case for the fact that the Rafale would be outdated if the MICA EM’s range is not fixed.
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Interestingly, there are reports now to buff the Su-30’s DL channels from 4 to 8 so they’ll be able to properly spam their R-77-1s in BVR, [DEV] N011M Bars Datalink Channels // Gaijin.net // Issues
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There you go, so there’s their so beloved frontal fighter with the capability to also outmatch any other loadout numerically speaking.
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Shocker