MG151 realshatter discussion/BIAS

Machinery of War Discussion Aircraft
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102

We had this discussion on the Buff .50s page.

For realism, it’s that plane damage models are ridiculous weak and simplified, especially for aircraft known for durability. Some of these rounds only have a gram of filler. Take a teaspoon worth of granulated sugar, sift off some from the top. that’s 1 gram. Gaijin treats any round that it deems as having ‘high explosive filler’ as extremely powerful.

Gaijin thinks rounds with as much filler as is in a sachet of sugar you’d get with your coffee at McDonalds should be able to snap wings with a few shots. Look at Ho-103 ‘HE’ damage.

The entire damage modeling of planes is messed the hell up. And if gaijin went with the realistic route of aircraft damage. The lines would begin to blur as you’d find that planes that relied on sheer high explosive performance wouldn’t be that impressive, unless under certain circumstances versus planes using incendiary or anything that had good fragmentation. British tests with 20mm Mineshells shows that it basically blows a hole in the skin and does some light peppering as the copper jacket isn’t that destructive. And that’s on Spitfires.

You’d also find that that some aircraft would just be a pain in the rear to kill, especially overbuilt U.S. aircraft. Whilst at the same time, 20mm equipped planes would be subject to visceral ammo explosions.

U.S. incendiary M23 has 5.8 grams of filler yet gaijin doesn’t consider it ‘high explosive’

same thing with M1 incendiary it’s around 3.2-3.4 grams of filler but there’s no fragmentation as gaijin doesn’t consider it a high explosive.

Gaijin is picky-choosy.

Russian 12.7mm ‘IAI’ hits so hard it can fragment like a 20mm.

They balance damage for gameplay purposes. Not accuracy.

Gaijin likes to play favorites with machine guns.

Gaijin likes to play favorites with cannons.

3 Likes
103

because 50cals dont have enough space to be high explosive its incinedary it burns not explodes

104

prob a artficial buff because US PLANES get infinite 50 cal ammo and russians dont

105

There are plenty of .50cal rounds that are filled with explosives, incendiary compound or both.

The main difference is that explosives create a strong shockwave but little heat, while incendiary compounds, like phosphorus, thermite and flash powder create a lot of heat.
They also don’t explode but deflagrate, like black powder.

But they still create explosions from the built-up of pressure when contained, just like black powder.

They can burst a shell like explosives but the velocity of fragments is much lower.

At the same time, the pressure built-up generally surpasses that of most explosives.

That’s why incendiary ammunition can still deal the same or higher blast damage within a planes structure.

Because .50cals are so light, there’s practically no point in filling them with explosives over incendiary, since you only really need explosives to disperse a lot of fragments.

At least when it comes to WW2 aircraft.

Spoiler

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In WT the three rounds on the on the left (just imagine the Breda-SAFAT round to be filled only with explosive) can completely demolish aircraft via structural damage. And they even completely ignore the incendiary filler they might have, mind you.

The three Incendiary rounds on next to them deal practically no damage in WT and can only cause fuel fires, which the explosives rounds can as well.

It makes simply no sense that several .50cal rounds with maybe 6-8g of explosive content combined outperform a single 20mm with the same amount and likewise two 20mm are basically outperforming a single 30mm shell, despite bringing nowhere near as much energy into the target.

In WT 15mm IT rounds with 4.9g flash powder are literally outperformed by .50cal API rounds that have 1-1.15g flash powder because Gaijin still uses hard coded incendiary performance data from 2012.

4 Likes
106

Like what Kiwi said. Anything that is energetic and then put under compression, has increased efficiency.

That’s how engines work. You need some compression to make enough of a boom, compression makes anything energetic go boom. m23 is basically an M80 firecracker going super sonic speeds. M80 already goes boom. M23 adds compression, making it go boom even more.

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107

Right now HE shells do not fuse on all plywood covered aircraft, 98% of these are Soviet (not type wise but quantity-wise) which is one of the factors affedting M-geschoss underperformance.
But in general adding real shatter is not a fix. Real shatter is broken beyond any repair and has to be replaced as a whole with new and improved damage mechanics.

3 Likes
108

Honestly, German 20mm behaves how most 20mm should behave.

3 Likes
109

well thats not gonna happen anytime soon its bad enough we have some of the worst airframes of the BR and the worst cannons atleast make them useable at this rate 3 50cals would be better than what current 109s and 190s have it should not be pick and choose

3 Likes
110

well then fix the other 20mms which will never happen or add realshatter as its plain bias
its just plane hate against germany and italy and france

1 Like
111

yes lets just keep buffing other nations and not anyone who uses MG151s not to mention germany usually on 109s atleast has one 20mm spits corsairs all got 4 even a yak1b has more fire power

112

yeah and thats a fuel tank again show me it hiting something thats not combustable its a tiny bullet compared to cannons obviously it wont do as much damage exspecilly APIT but you 4000 rounds of it so it less of a problem

1 Like
113

Germany already has one of the strongest air trees. It’s most certainly not hate against Germany.

114

that goes to britain and russia germany is maybe the 5th or 6th completely wack FMs and horrible cannons IRL german props where good ingame there so dumb its not even funny go face a spit MK9 or YAK-3 or F8F-1 and say the same thing in a 109 of eqaul br only good fighters for germany are early Fw190Ds and BF109G2/6 which are MID

not gonna even mention jets as its complete crap shoot ah yes ME-262 A1A vs MIG 15 very balanced

the only way to play most german props is side climbing which is mindnumbly boring and no one should have to put up with

115

i rarely ever feel threatened by any german plane

1 Like
116

haha

117

british props like spit/hawker hurricane are awesome

118

doesnt mean they have the strongest air tree, I put them at like 5-7th because of how bad rank 5-8 is

119

whats in 5-8

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there are 10 nations

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yeah whats rank 5-8 only bad jets i know off are the overtiered ones