nope cause its russian and they gotta be op
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I’ve discovered that I made a mistake in the calculation.
The adjusted ShVAK performance starting at 100m should be:
| Range | 20mm FI-T (117g) | 20mm AP (117g) | 20mm Ho-5 (84.5g) | 20mm ShVAK (91g) | 20mm ShVAK (96g) | 20mm HS 404 HEF-T (120g) |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| v0 | 720m/s | 720m/s | 740m/s | ~735m/s (100m) | ~720m/s (100m | 738m/s (200m) |
| 100m | 0.145 | 0.146 | 0.14 | 0.14 | 0.1 | 0.14 |
| 200m | 0.303 | 0.306 | 0.30 | 0.30 | 0.3 | 0.30 |
| 300m | 0.477 | 0.483 | 0.48 | 0.48 | 0.5 | 0.47 |
| 400m | 0.666 | 0.679 | 0.68 | 0.69 | 0.7 | 0.66 |
| 500m | 0.874 | 0.898 | 0.91 | 0.92 | 1 | 0.86 |
| 600m | 1.101 | 1.143 | 1.16 | 1.18 | 1.3 | 1.10 |
| 700m | 1.348 | 1.415 | 1.46 | 1.6 | 1.35 | |
| 800m | 1.616 | 1.716 | 1.76 | 1.9 | 1.61 | |
| 900m | 1.905 | 2.047 | 2.08 | 2.2 | ||
| 1000m | 2.215 | 2.407 |
Thanks to @Ghostmaxi I got German data for the HS 404 cannon and added it to the comparison as well.
Now the ShVAK shell performs actually the worst out of all cannons, even though the difference up to 400m is basically neglectable.
Which is still odd, since the ShVAK shell is so much lighter than the HS 404 shell.
At the same time it’s now slightly worse above 400m than the very light Ho-5 shell but maybe the Ho-5 ballistics are actually for flight times at altitude and not sea level.
I also adjusted the table for the TNSh 96g shell. The table isn’t very accurate, with only one decimal point, but somehow the heavier shell has even worse ballistic performance.
Edit: I changed the HS 404 shell weight from ~130g to 124g. I think that French Hispano ammunition was lighter and fired at 880m/s while the later British ammunition had a weight of ~131.5g and was slightly slower.
Edit: I changed the weight again to 120g and added HEF-T, as Ghostmaxi provided me with some more details on the shell type for the ballistic table.
This explains the very similar ballistics to the German 117g FI-T and IT shells.
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Lighter (less inertia) and less energy (initial impulse) - add to that any aerodynamic differences and you’re good to go.
I have no clue what your trying to say.
The heavier Hispano shell should slow down a lot less than the lighter ShVAK or Ho-5 shell.
But here in the comparison the difference is very minor.
The MG 151/20 117g FI-T shell seems to be very similar in ballistics to the ~130g Hispano shell.
I expected a bigger difference from the German shell having a tracer, reducing drag.
While the much lighter Ho-5 and ShVAK shells don’t fare that much worse, especially compare to the data from the TNSh cannon which fires a slightly heavier ShVAK shell.
I could also add data for the German 20mm AP rounds, having a weight of 117g and no tracer and I‘m pretty confident that the Ho-5 and ShVAK ballistic, from the data that I have, would still match them, despite being lighter.
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But don’t these devs just never get tired of making mistakes? And we have the ground forces, which need a complete overhaul of the damage model for practically all bullets, an adjustment to the penetration model and armor. And now they’re also destroying the air forces. They have no restraint when it comes to making their own game a piece of garbage.
I added MG 151/20 AP ballistics.
As expected, the lighter (117g) shell is slightly inferior to the heavier Hispano shell (120g).
While the data for the 91g ShVAK shell is hardly worse, despite the even bigger weight difference.
Velocity loses after 100m:
FI-T 720m/s → 660m/s = -60m/s
AP 720m/s > 655m/s = -65m/s
HEF-T 738m/s → 674m/s = -64m/s
Since the data for the TNSh shows the heavier ShVAK shell with inferior performance, it means that either the data is wrong or that the 91g shell is indeed a Tracer shell, which would then explain the superor ballistic performance.
Another explanation could be that the data from the TNSh cannon is simply incorrect. It’s not very precise in the first place.
The ballistic of the Ho-5 and 91g ShVAK shell match very closely and the weight difference isn’t very large, slightly smaller than the German 20mm AP shell compared to the Hispano HEF-T shell, which don’t differ that much in ballistics either.
Edit:
Changed Hispano Ball ammo (~124g) to HEF-T (120g)
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I changed the HS 404 shell weight from ~130g to 124g. I think that French Hispano ammunition was lighter and fired at 880m/s, while the later British ammunition had a weight of ~131.5g and was slightly slower.
With this the difference in ballistic are very close to the 20mm AP shell weighing 117g which has a pointed nose and should be more aerodynamic.
Edit: Changed it to 120g as I received new information about the shell. It’s actually an explosive shell with a tracer and not Ball or just explosive w/o tracer.
So it’s actually more similar to the German FI-T and IT shells. Hence why they have very similar ballistics.
The more I get used to mg151/20 ballistics and the more I try other guns, the less sh*tty 151s seem to be, honestly.
I just had a game, where a yak 9t ate a ton of shots from 6x browning m2, all scored as hits (at least 5), he had 3 leaks, and continued to fight close to normal.
I might’ve gotten an unlucky hit with 20mm mineshell maybe once, but I would’ve surely taken him down much faster
Shvaks/type99mk2s do have better ballistics over range than 151 and they are deadly, but 151s have a slight edge at close range in terms of muzzle velocity and rpm. And even with very little time on target, landing a burst from 151s is the most consistent in scoring fatal hits, for me at least
Appreciate you providing us with the info, man
Just 1 note, I don’t see why you would use FI-T rounds of 151s for comparison, when it’s the 785m/s HE shells that are the most important
Well, it was about the ShVAK ballistics and the FI-T and AP are similar to other 20mm cannon shells, while the Mineshell is unique to the MG 151/20.
The ballistic performance is also incredible bad.
| Range | 20mm Mineshell (92g) | 20mm ShVAK (91g) | 20mm HS 404 HEF-T (120g) |
|---|---|---|---|
| v0 | 790m/s | 815m/s | 880m/s |
| 100m | 0.136 | 0.13 | 0.12 |
| 200m | 0.294 | 0.27 | 0.24 |
| 300m | 0.479 | 0.43 | 0.38 |
| 400m | 0.696 | 0.61 | 0.54 |
| 500m | 0.952 | 0.82 | 0.71 |
| 600m | 1.249 | 1.05 | 0.90 |
| 700m | 1.588 | 1.31 | 1.10 |
| 800m | 1.965 | 1.59 | 1.34 |
| 900m | 2.371 | 1.89 | 1.59 |
| 1000m | 2.792 | 2.21 | 1.85 |
I was originally under the impression that ShVAKs overperform ballistic wise and that there was something odd with the ballistic table but maybe I was wrong about it.
But it’s also difficult to say how they perform in the game.
3 Likes
For shvaks the fi-t tracer belt is the go to, your listed stats are for HE shvak round which noone uses really
Well, I don’t think there is ballistic data for the FI-T shell. At least none that I know off.
But it should be slightly worse than German FI-T since it’s a bit lighter.
But unsuprising, ShVAK shells are all modeled with better drag coeficents than MG 151/20 shells, according to datamine.
And the I-T shells are implemented with a weight of 116g instead of 117g, FI-T with 115g instead of 117g.
But in the game those numbers are rounded to 0.12kg, so no chance to report it in the first place.
Mineshells even have better coeficents than API and APHE, but because they are lighter still have worse ballistics.
Of course you can’t report ShVAK shells overperforming because it’s almost impossible to even show that in the game.
And you also can’t tell them that they should have worse ballistic performance than German FI-T and I-T shells, since they will simply not accept it as a fact.
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It’s 0.096 mass, 0.47 drag, 800 m/s velocity, so yeah, all around better on paper and in-game they are much easier to land over longer ranges at linearly moving targets
But I don’t know what it is, maybe I’m just too used to shooting mg151s but I could swear, at very close ranges (up to 200-300m), mg151s are easier to land shots with.
Im the opposite of physics-savvy but in my head, the lighter mineshell should be less affected by gravity, so even though it loses much more horizontal velocity over distance, it suffers less vertical bullet drop in the initial 200-300m, where there is still enough momentum to push it forward. And then past 300m it gets so slow that it just kinda falls out of the sky, while Shvaks follow a smoother trajectory
Maybe im completely wrong but that’s how it feels.
You can, just dont mention that you have it from the datamine and just write something like from the ballistics and penetration it appears that the shells are incorrectly modeled and too light and should all be 117g.
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Unfortunately not. Gravity affects all objects equally, regardless of weight.
Yeah, it just comes down to speed. But it hardly makes a difference to Mineshells since they might be faster but also have so much more drag.
You can see from the table I’ve posted that, surprise, they are worse than other shells, even though they are slightly better till 200m than other MG 151/20 shells and roughly equal till 400m.
So up to 400m you can expect to hit with with all rounds equally while at longer range it becomes more and more unlikely.
I feel very noticeable difference at close range, trying to land those deflection shots or in high speed chases, stealth belts are much more effective. Plus, with stealh your aphe and api wheels better velocity as well.
Aphe/f-iT rounds provide if only a slight benefit at ranges of 400-600m. And the dmg is too inconsistent, you often don’t have enough time on target to be able to land that many shots. Plus, you need to be lucky to one shot with those , HEI are more reliable as long as you land this shit
okay bro go ahead and tell me why mg151s are literally the worse aircraft cannons at their br despite having the most he they literally do nothing and still suffer from the worse velocity because of it, they explode so you can’t snipe bombers anymore lmao too so though that on top, but they get added on a Soviet spaa and gaijin suddenly remembers but just for that. It has been several big updates they’ve had plenty of time to address it yet haven’t. and dude I literally couldn’t care less about your sim stats who plays that lmao