Merkava being a cardboard

merk was designed starting 1970 and in service 9 years later in 79.
At the time, the neighbouring nations barely had anything more the early model T-72As and T-72M1s etc.
The merk designers were expecting current ammunition and future ammunition but no one can afford to go overboard with armour (on a 65ton obesity). So they expected 3BM15 (400mm at 0*), 3BM17 (similar to 15), 3BM22 (420mm at 0*) and eventually as they came around to it, 3BM26, 3BM32 and 3BM42 ‘mango’ (kek) (457mm at 0*).
So I imagine they would be caught off guard when they found their brain child facing modern 3BM60 in a video game with 580mm of pen at 0*. No wonder it struggles with protection. It was never meant to face such ammunition.

Spoiler

Not from egypt (neutered), not from syria (too busy), not from jordan or lebanon (busy too), and iran is not gonna do a tank invasion because its pretty much unfeasible.

Cannot be taken as fact as that is a claim. And also, given the correct angle, even a BT-5 can ricochet or stop a modern APFSDS shell.

Ive heard the opposite.
Infact, I’ve heard the T-72 has never faced the merkavas and the merkavas have never faced the T-72.
And even against syrian T-62s it suffered losses.
Historical reports from 2010 state that even kornet ATGMs could penetrate the UFP of the merk.
Heck, even the RPG-29 can defeat the SLERA of the merk.

this is a relative method of calculation you are taking. br spread doesnt matter. Stats do. And the penetration statistics show that the supposed 9.7 russian missile has 1,200mm of penetration. So yeah. please recheck your claims with respect to penetration vs armour values instead of br.

This is accurate to real life. And since personal experience is valid evidence here… I have seen it. so its true.

thats just purely wrong. SLERA is basically ERA with less explosive filler so it can be stacked. but we know that the main thickness of the UFP of the merk is no where more than 400mm and not all of that is SLERA ‘active’. hence tandem warheads and modern ammunition that the merk faces in game go thru like butter.
Kotakt-5 is way better purely because it has more filler and has been designed to face modern ammunition ever sine Kontakt-1 dropped.

again, this is not part of the discussion which was abt the UFP. no side armour on any tank i know can stop an APFSDS shell.
but yes i agree to this.

in your opinion it isnt. we can disagree.

thats… a biased statement if i ever heard one. Ive seen knocked out T-80BVMs and T-90s and they have a BRUTAL amount of pure muscle in their UFP. The merk cannot match that while maintaining 65 tons.

not always true and i dont know which tanks you are talking about, the merk is a 1979 starting service tank while the t-72 is a 1969 starting service tank. im not saying the base model T-72 has better UFP than the merk but were comparing in game so its not a T-72 itll be a T-80 (1976)(base model) or T-90 (1992).

This is not a Merk special feature, every tank has gone thru this. Even ammunition does.

nearly 100mm more isnt a small margin…

it has.

without SLERA, merk armour in real life would be vastly weaker.

IMO it will still get penetrated easily by the ammunition variety that it faces in game.
the engagement scenarios in game can prove unrealistic, but thats what makes WT a game. its not always realistic. we have to bear that in mind.

in my experience it can and the armour is considerably tough to beat with older APFSDS.

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The transmission is lower so it doesnt affect much, but i think the engine was counted in the 927mm figure calculated by the armour penetration calculator in WT. And of that nearly 20000mm of spaced armour (engine), it is not comparable to RHA nor is it consistent. And air doesnt really stop a molten piece of metal flyin at you at mach 1

It’s incorrect.

huh?

It’s incorrect. SLERA should stop vastly more than it does in-game. Gaijin has acknowleged.

i dont deny that.
but please, share that report as well so i can see EXACTLY how much.

https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/1eYOWMuJWJ3n

This is currently the biggest active bug report on the Merkavas hull armor. This might not be the one you’re looking for, but best guess is it’s this one.

Also want to add that apparently the user who made this report states the Merk Mk.4 can survive Kornets to the front, turret, and side (“to an extent”) with pictures to help show this fact.

he provided photo proof of the left turret cheek tanking a kornet. Which i dont deny it probably can.

the UFP how ever cannot.
EDIT:
idk but doesnt it look like a hit from a Kornet F3?

Gaijin: It’s just an armour made of cardboard🫣


This is also an armour made of paper 🫣
IMG_4101

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goddamn that looks thick, it looks like the side armor

As i said multiple times, warthunder isn’t a realistic game.

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Even if it isn’t a “Realistic Game”, it is still very annoying and inaccurate to make the Merkava a cardboard.
And as I SAID multiple times: “They themselves have acknowledged this mistake a long time ago”. Yet, they still did nothing about it. We are only here to talk about it and the about the fact of how bad the armor is ingame compared to IRL.
And again! If people leaked Classified shit on this forum, then I am pretty sure this game aims to be pretty realistic.

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You also made another error previously that went unchecked. Gaijin has indeed labeled the Merkava 4 has 65 tons, but it’s not. The IDF on several occasions has said that the vehicle weighs 80 tons.

Gaijin pulled 65 tons out of their ass.

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statements and technical documents can vary. i doubt any MBT in the modern day will weigh 80 tons simply due to the fact that no military wants to lob around 80 tons of crap which you cant even pull over bridge cuz itll break
properties600

Have you seen the videos of it sluggishly moving around? It’s a house on tracks, and the IDF confirmed that it’s around ~80 tons. Any other source seems to be misinformed or incorrect. I mean just look at the Mk.3 vs Mk.4, and then look me in my eyes and tell me they weigh the same… lmao no…

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Well the speed isn’t much a sign of the weight but i do have to agree on your second point.
Hmm… now to find a source that states 80 tons

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Still don’t understand until this day that why tf instead of buff other MK4 to LIC level
But no nerf LIC to other MK IV level

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The IDF themselves including those who worked with the vehicle.

You cannot tell me with a straight face that the difference between the Mark 1 and the mark 4 is only 2 tons. This can only mean one thing; Gaijin got the weights of the vehicles wrong.

You mentioned that you doubted a tank would weigh consistently close to 80 tons in this day and age because you’d have to lob it around, but you seem to have forgotten the only reason tanks in NATO aren’t 80 tons is because they have to worry about weak European bridges, large landmasses, and insufficient load capacity. Israel isn’t very big, they don’t have weak bridges, and they don’t struggle to move heavy vehicles either.

In the Middle East where it’s mostly desert or otherwise open landmasses with no geological issues, these vehicles have no reason to not be that heavy if they’re intended role is to take the brunt of an assault.

If you need a rapid response, that’s what the Eitan is for. It’s not meant for the urban CQC fight, but as an example. when HAMAS launched their attack, it was used to great effect in rapid response.

In Israel’s inventory, they have the heaviest military vehicles of this day and age as well as vehicles capable of doing rapid responses in emergencies. It’s a perfect blend for their situation.

There is literally no difference in armor between the Mk.4B and the Mk.4 LIC in-game. It’s literally just an extra 4B.

There was a difference when it was added, but it wasn’t intentional.

It’s unfortunate that Tech Trees which aren’t Germany, Russia, or Sweden can’t get anything good.

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then they say they wont improve it because they say it’s performing fine

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