Meriam GS 105mm Howitzer (AMX Mk.61) - The Self-Propelled backbone of the Indonesian Artillery Battalion

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‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ Meriam, Gerak Sendiri, 105mm Howitzer‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎

‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ (Cannon, Self-Propelled, 105mm Howitzer)‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎

Hello everyone! Today I would like to suggest the Indonesian AMX Mk.61. The vehicle is a Self-propelled Artillery using the basis of the AMX-13.

The AMX Mk.61 was an export variant of the French OB 105 Mle 50 AU, itself being a Self-Propelled howitzer derrived from the AMX-13 chassis. The vehicle carries a 105mm M1950 howitzer with an elongated 30-caliber barrel unlike its French counterpart. The rigid superstructure is mounted at the rear of the vehicle. The Mk.61 is unique in the sense that it uses a new distinct circular commander’s cupola, replacing the original hatch design. The Indonesian variant also obtained a roof-mounted 7.62mm M60 machine gun. Indonesia originally obtained a small number as newly built from france, and later a large number as surplus from the Dutch. In Indonesian service, the vehicle would be known as the Meriam GS 105mm Howitzer, with some vehicles still being used into the late 2010s. The vehicle would give an interesting SPG for Indonesia in the Japanese tree.

The placement of the vehicle in-game depends on whether it gets the full-loadout of HEAT instead of the basic 6x rounds, if it does get all HEAT then it could easily sit at Rank IV with a BR of ~ 6.3 - 6.7 similar to the JPz 4-5. If it can only can only carry the supposedly standard 6x rounds then it would be at a lower BR instead.

What is the name used by the Army for the vehicle?

Generally the name used for the AMX Mk61 (AMX-105) by the Army for publications and the like is the “Meriam GS 105mm” which translate to “Cannon, Self-propelled, 105mm”, with the M109 receiving the name “Meriam GS 155mm” (Cannon, Self-propelled, 155mm)

translated:

“Danpusssenarmed revealed that Pussenarmed has ordered 18 units of 155 mm GS M109A4-BE cannons which will be used by the 4th/GS Armed Battalion and the 7th/GS Armed Battalion as a replacement for the 105 mm GS Howitzer Cannon.”

Danpussenarmed Tinjau Uji Fungsi Meriam 155 MM GS M109A4-BE


This suggestion is primarily made to complement the already suggested Indonesian Ground Forces Sub-Tree as well as the Expanded List of Indonesian Ground vehicles



A. Background & History

Details

The first major derivative production which uses the AMX-13 chassis was a light 105mm Self-propelled howitzer officially known as the “Obusier de 105 Mle 1950 sur affût automoteur”. Otherwise known as the “OB 105 Mle 50 AU”. The vehicle was designed to meet the requirements of the French Army in the late 40s. The vehicle itself was built in prototype form in 1948 on an early experimental AMX-13 Chassis. The gun was mounted in an armored casemate on the rear of the vehicle, and it can elevate up to ~70 degrees up ~4 degrees down. The gun is not fully-traversable, but it can rotate left and right up to 37 degrees.

First prototype of the Obusier de 105 Mle 1950 sur affût automoteur (OB 105 Mle 50 AU)

Series production of the vehicle was delayed and unit test began in the summer of 1954, with the 8e Régiment d’Artillerie. The vehicle would use the Type 2C AMX-13 chassis, with around 329 units being produced from july 1954. A turreted version of the vehicle was also developed from 1952 by the Atelier de Bourges with unrealized hopes of a French order, this version would mount a longer 30-caliber barrel (compared to the original 23-caliber) capable of firing a wider variety of 105mm rounds with a slightly longer range. Only Switzerland obtained 4 units and at least 1 prototype being tested by the French Artillery. Nevertheless, the original vehicle would serve the French Artillery service and only being replaced from 1968 onwards by the 155mm gun on the Canon 155 Automouvante F3, and eventually the Au F1. The original vehicle was also exported to Israel, Morocco & to West Germany.

French Army OB 105 Mle 50 AU in the Mailly-le-Camp training ground in 1959.

In the early 60s, both Indonesia and Netherlands purchased the OB 105 Mle 50 AU with the improved 30-caliber variant, with the two nations ordering 4 & 82 units respectively. The vehicle would receive the English designation of the “AMX-105 Mk.61”, or simply the AMX Mk.61. It’s specifications is quite similar to the original model, but with some differences. The superstructure located at the rear of the vehicle with the troops entering through the doors at the rear. The commander is situated at the right front-side of the superstructure, right beside the gun. Unlike in the original, the Dutch & Indonesian model’s commander hatch is of a single piece domed hatchwith periscopes surrounding it for observation. The Mk.61 has no amphibious capability nor NBC protection.

The main armament consists of a 105mm M1950 Howitzer with a 30-caliber barrel with a double baffle muzzle brake and no fume extractor. It can fire a 105mm High-Explosive projectile weighing 16kg, with a muzzle velocity of 670 m/s to a max range of 15km. It can also fire the 105mm HEAT projectile with a muzzle velocity of 700 m/s, capable of penetring 350mm of armor at 0 degrees or 105mm of armor at 65 degrees. Additionally it can fire other standard 105mm US howitzer rounds. It can carry a total of 56x rounds of separate-loaded ammo, 6 of which are usually reserved for the HEAT rounds. The fire-control equipment consists of an L841.7 goniometer with a magnification of 4x zoom and an L881 Telescope for Anti-tank use with a magnification of 6x zoom. The Indonesian vehicle is armed with a roof-mounted 7.62mm M60 machine gun.

Dutch (Left) & Indonesian (Right) AMX Mk.61 with the circular cupola

The Mk.61 was purchased by Indonesia as part of the arms buildup required for the Trikora Operation to annex Western Irian from the Dutch. A total of 4x OB 105 Mle 50 AU (Mk.61) was purchased alongside 57x AMX-13 Mle 51s, 22x Mle 56 VCIs, 2x Mle 55 ARV, and 4x PP F1 Bridge-layers. These vehicle would be put into service by the Artillery Battalion branch of the Army. But the conflict was eventually resolved without any large-scale fighting by the two nations.

Due to a need to increase the Artillery Battalion’s capabilities, throughout 1976-1983 second-hand dutch AMX-13 fleet was being replaced and sold as surplus to Indonesia as relations had cooled between the two nations. The program would include ~80 PRA 105mm SPGs (Dutch designation for the Mk.61), alongside other AMX-13 based vehicles, such as ~600 AMX PRI APCs (Dutch-designated VTT Mle 56s), ~130 Mle58 AMX-13 light tanks and ~30+ Mle55 ARV. All of the former Koninklijke Landmacht (Royal Dutch Army) vehicles were overhauled and repaired by RDM & Wilton Fiennoord before delivery to Indonesia. In Indonesian service, the AMX Mk.61 would receive the designation “Meriam GS 105mm Howitzer”, meaning “Cannon, Self-Propelled, 105mm Howitzer” in English.

Fleet of AMX tanks in Indonesia

Currently the vehicle is still in reserves with at least two artillery battalion, namely the 7th Medium Artillery Battalion/105GS/Biring Galih & the 4th Medium Artillery Battalion/105GS/Parahyangan with the vehicle being spotted in an exercise in the late 2010s. The role of the self-propelled howitzers had been replaced by the newer Belgian M109A4-BE (Meriam GS 155mm) & the French CAESAR.

Convoy of Meriam GS 105mm



B. Specifications

Details

General Specifications

  • Crew: 5
  • Length: 6.4 m
  • Width: 2.65 m
  • Height: 2.7 m
  • Empty Weight (Combat): 13.7 t (16.5 t)
  • Armor
    • Hull
      • Front: 15 mm @ 40°
      • Side: 20 mm
      • Top: 10 mm
      • Rear: 15 mm
    • Floor
      • Front: 20 mm
      • Rear: 10 mm
    • Superstructure/Casemate
      • Front & Side: 20 mm
      • Rear: 15 mm
      • Top: 10 mm
  • Transmission: Manual Transmission
    Gears: 5 forwards, 1 reverse
  • Engine: SOFAM 8Gxb 8-Cylinder Water-cooled petrol engine
    • Horsepower: 250 hp @ 3200 rpm
    • Power-to-weight Ratio: 15.15 hp/t
    • Max Road Speed: 60 km/h

Armament

  • 1x 105mm M1950 30-caliber Howitzer
    • 50x HE rounds
    • 6x HEAT rounds
  • 1x 7.62mm M60 Roof-mounted Machine gun
    • 2000x rounds

Systems

  • Manual gun traverse
  • 20° traversal limit both left & right
  • -4°/+70° elevation
  • 30% side slope
  • Torsion bar suspension
Crew Compartment



C. More Images

Details

VIDEOS

Youtube Video 1

Youtube Video 2

IMAGES


Meriam GS 105mm with its 5-man crew


A line of the GS 105 during a firing exercise.


Meriam GS 105 during a recent exercise


Side profile of the vehicle


Closer look at the roof-mounted M60



D. Sources

Details


Thank you for reading! Any suggestions or corrections would be highly appreciated!

Additionally, you can check out more Indonesian suggestions below!

5 Likes

Would have a home in a line up the HEAT round will be useful mopping up tigers though with infantry mode it might be better suited blasting buildings as a siege engine.

3 Likes

With this and M4A3 105 Japan TT would have 105 howitzer blaster that can be brough with Chi-nu

3 Likes

+1 - we need more medium caliber sphs (sphes? sphi?) in game

3 Likes

“sph” or “spg”

I believe

1 Like

Did the Dutch variants also have a roof mounted gun? If so, French tree all day long.

check here! This one is Indonesian, ergo its goin in the Japanese tree

3 Likes

smh ninja’d

1 Like

1 Like

A +1 from me! Hopefully, it’ll come as part of that Sub TT they mentioned.

1 Like

Any information on the HEAT round’s penetration? The 105mm HE round would be too small for most vehicles in War Thunder so I wouldn’t limit how many HEAT rounds you can carry.

It’s use the same cartridge and shell with the M101 Howitzer, so the HEAT shell would be the same as the M4A3 105

Putting it here so other people see

1 Like

I found on a similar post (the AMX PRA - the Mk.61 but for Netherlands: AMX PRA (AMX Mk.61) - A Post-War French Self-Propelled Artillery of the Royal Netherlands Army - #9 by MeanBROSofD72805) and they both made me look for additional information and I’ve found some sources where it says the gun uses the same HE rounds as the US 105mm guns, the " Shell Semi-fixed 105x372 mm R", including Wikipedia: Mk 61 105 mm self-propelled howitzer - Wikipedia.

As for the HEAT round ,it was mentioned in the Background&History tab on both posts but I missed it since I searched for these details in the Specifications one. It says that it should actually have ~350mm penetration (bigger than the ~130mm penetration of M67 round on M4A3 105mm version), also confirmed by the same Wiki page and some French sources like this one: AMX Mk 61 105mm (FR).
Funny though, the French source mentions a 16kg HE round instead of the ~15kg it should be on M1 105x372 mm round: "Elles comprennent un projectile brisant HE de 16 kg et dont la portée maximale est de 15.000 m, et un HEAT( charge creuse) antichar capable de percer, à 1.000 m, 350 mm de blindage frappé perpendiculairement (105 mm seulement avec une incidence de 65°)." Translation: They include a 16 kg HE shattering projectile with a maximum range of 15,000 m, and an anti-tank HEAT (shaped charge) capable of piercing, at 1,000 m, 350 mm of armor struck perpendicularly (only 105 mm with an incidence of 65°). I am not sure if 16kg is a typo or does it refer to another HE round serviceable by the gun.

It’s weird that the sources I find mentions the Obusier de 105 modèle 1950 as the main gun, different from CN-105-57 in purpose and in rounds they get access to fire. I also have detailed what I found in my post above and the sources I’ve checked confirm the ~350mm HEAT round instead of the 400mm OCC 105 F1. OE 105 F1 Mle.60 is also lighter, only 12.1 kg compared to 15 and 16kg the other sources have mentioned for the OB 105 Mle 50 ( Obusier de 105 modèle 1950) gun.

in regards to the HE, based on your info it seems to be this

OE Mle 53


The first step is to define the main ammunition (high-explosive shell) for the 105mm Mle 50 howitzer, ammunition that must allow it to reach a range of 14,500 meters. The shell will be adopted under the designation OE Mle 53. It is a 16 kg shell fired with a charge of 7 under a maximum pressure (Pm) of 2,600 bar, for a muzzle velocity (V0) of 568 m/s and a maximum range of 14,500 m. The overlap of ranges is ensured by the use of two charge systems:

  • Fast charges: 1 to 5
  • Slow charges: 5 to 7

it ran into many different issues but I dont think it was replaced by anything else, so it could be the primary HE for it. I could not find any mention of it elsewhere though

https://web.archive.org/web/20230315120418/https://www.irsem.fr/data/files/irsem/documents/document/file/1641/Ouvrage_TAUZIN_Tome_9_Armenent_gros_calibre.pdf (p.180)

If that the case then maybe the US M67 HEAT could be added as stock HEAT shell while the OCC 105 F1 is a tier III mod HEAT Shell. also this would make this SPH a 4.0 TD just like Ikv 103

1 Like