Orders are in fact quite useless (besides antimech and blind hunt), but wagers aren’t.
Wagers are really useful, you just need to know how to use them
Feedback as a whole also includes positive feedback. If the Devs also don’t hear from people what they do actually like, enjoy and want see then it’s actually far less helpful than just a list of things you don’t like.
Talking about things that don’t need to change (because you presumably like them) or something that you do agree with is equally as valid as something you do not like. It lets the devs know what elements are received well and what they can build upon with that.
It also is suspicious if someone is only providing negative content, because it does make you wonder what they enjoy at all about anything if they only ever are negative about everything that ever comes up. If they are never positive at all, then it becomes more apparent that it’s probably someone that might never be satisfied no matter what is done if there is no evidence of them ever reacting positively to anything at all in the past. This actually is a massive unconstructive element if there is no positive reaction to anything at all and makes future changes based on said feedback harder to make.
Constructive feedback goes both ways and doesn’t just mean things you don’t like. It’s nothing about “ego” and everything about valid, fair and constructive progress in improving the game for everyone. Nobody’s opinion is invalid simply because they have a negative opinion. But being simply negative itself is not constructive feedback.
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.If the Devs also don’t hear from people
The devs don’t hear it either way because they’re not on this forum, because despite my requests to have a monthly Q&A sort of thing where they answer some questions, I was told they were too busy to actually spend time listening to the community and could not free up maybe 15 minutes a month.
Instead it is seemingly people like you who get to curate what is send to the devs, and for all I know you are cherry picking comments and just send them Bruce’s message about how a wager in place of an actual vehicle is appreciated and you don’t tell them that there are others who think it’s a joke, there is zero transparency about what the devs actually receive.
someone that might never be satisfied
The game isn’t made for someone, it’s made for everyone, and the first thing people learn when making something for a large audience is that you can never please everyone anyways.
This actually is a massive unconstructive element if there is no positive reaction to anything at all and makes future changes based on said feedback harder to make.
That seems irrelevant in the grand scheme of things, if I was personally responsible for providing feedback about the game I could write an entire essay about all the things that I think are great about the game and what should be expanded upon, and another essay about all the issues with the game that need to fixed.
Instead my criticism is just one voice of many, I dislike it it, and Bruce likes it, so it balances out, and if you only send Bruce’s feedback, my criticism doesn’t even exist.
Considering 99.9% of feedback goes straight to the void and the other 0.1% we don’t know what is being send to the devs, it doesn’t seem worthwhile to dedicate time to talk about things that don’t need change opposed to things that do need change.
Especially not when the devs can’t even free up a tiny bit of time to communicate with the people who they make the game for.
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It’s incorrect to assume that just because a developer is not the one talking to you right now they dont “listen” or hear you.
Contrary to your assumption we do not “cherry pick” just the positive and send only that to the developers. As I mentioned above, in all constrictive feedback there is negative as well as positive. The negative is always sent with the positive, otherwise it’s just not feedback at all.
This is also a fully open forum. It’s not locked away somewhere that nobody can see. As well as whatever we pass, the Devs themselves directly visit and read feedback and topics. As are comments on all of our sites and social media platforms. They are not locked away behind a key.
This is simply just not the case, and such a negative approach sadly isn’t going to produce to direct any kind of constructive outcome.
Indeed. However we prefer to listen to what everyone has to say and take the full spectrum of things.
If however someone is simply negative about everything, there is every little you can do to reasonably resolve that if they have shown no prior signs of reacting positively to anything.
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It’s incorrect to assume that just because a developer is not the one talking to you right now they dont “listen” or hear you.
When I’m told they cannot dedicate 15 minutes a month to actually communicating with their playerbase through something other than a game of telephone with forum moderators I don’t think it’s an unreasonable thing to assume.
This is also a fully open forum. It’s not locked away somewhere that nobody can see.
Yeah, one of the few things that is transparant, unlike what is done with all of the feedback that is offered, all the criticism that is offered.
This is simply just not the case, and such a negative approach sadly isn’t going to produce to direct any kind of constructive outcome.
Source: Trust me.
I have no reason to believe otherwise, we’re constantly told that things are a certain way without proof that things are a certain way, and many times what we’re being told doesn’t seem to line up with what we are experiencing in game.
Vehicles that are clearly overperforming month after month, if not years, and then we’re told a ‘‘vehicle is performing within acceptable parameters’’ based on parameters we don’t know and according to statistics we’re not allowed to see, but we have to just trust that it’s true despite everything indicating it is not.
Or BR compression that has plagued the game for the last decade, but Gaijin sees no need to decompress the BRs though, all seems good on our end, and then suddenly a month later they decompress it anyways because reasons.
You can’t expect people to put blind trust in a company that has done nothing to deserve that blind trust and just tell them they are wrong without proving they are wrong and accusing them of being the problem because of their skeptical approach.
If however someone is simply negative about everything, there is every little you can do
It’s not about resolving an individuals problem though as we established, it’s just a small part of the feedback and has little to do with the individual, I don’t think my criticism on a subject should be discarded because I also criticized a different subject.
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I’m not quite sure who told you a Q&A takes just 15 minutes a month to do, however we used to hold regular Q&As with a couple of developers on the old forum when the community was far smaller than it is currently and it took a considerable amount more time to achieve, so much so that it simply became impractical to keep up as the community grew.
This is however why we are here. You don’t need to play a “game of telephone” with moderators as you have us Community Managers here. We aim to answer everything we can and as much as we can, but sadly we can’t provide an answer to everything. No one person can, developer or not.
I can only provide you the facts. You said above you don’t feel listened too, here we are and we are listening and communicating directly to you.
Sadly if our answers mean nothing to you when we do provide them, you are creating a bit of a self fulfilling prophecy for yourself there.
You are entirely correct and it isn’t. Just because you don’t like one thing, doesn’t mean you can’t dislike something else. None of your feedback is invalidated that way.
Questions only really arise when someone is negative in response to practically everything and doesn’t show any signs of positive response to any subject, no matter what it is. There is very little that can be done if we don’t also hear what elements are liked and just here what’s not liked.
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I’m not quite sure who told you a Q&A takes just 15 minutes a month to do, however we used to hold regular Q&As with a couple of developers on the old forum when the community was far smaller than it is currently and it took a considerable amount more time to achieve, so much so that it simply became impractical to keep up as the community grew.
I fail to see why it’s too much to ask to collect a bunch of questions every month, community picked ones, not cherry picked questions i have never actually seen anyone ask that usually end up in the Q&A things, and have those be directly answered by developers.
Unless their WPM is extremely low, I don’t see why it would have to take a lot longer than 15 minutes for them to type out answers to 10 or so questions.
Sadly if our answers mean nothing to you when we do provide them, you are creating a bit of a self fulfilling prophecy for yourself there.
Your answers are appreciated but they’re not factual evidence or objective truths, I again just have to believe that what you are telling me is true.
If vehicles are being balanced or not balanced than it should be proven with statistics that back this up, this never happens so I use Thunderskill, and then I get told by Gaijin that it’s not accurate, but again without statistics to back it up, so I am not inclined to believe that it is wrong until proven otherwise.
I have to piece together information from the last 10 years to deduce that vehicles are balanced by economy and vehicle lifetime and not performance, and that their earnings per minute is more important than their k/d.
Or that Gaijin is actively manipulating player earnings and progression to test player behavior.
Gaijin expects players to trust them and believe them without providing anything that gives them reason to do so.
As for Thunderskill not being accurate, this is actually the case. Same for the replay-system page.
I tested this last year as I have a tank that gets played less than 100 matches every month: the M43 G.C. ‘Leoncello’ according to thunderskill. I played exactly 112 matches in 30 days and thunderskill registered only 40 of them, even when I had made an account one month prior on the website.
And wouldn’t you know it, the data for specific vehicles gets only recorded for players that make an account on thunderskill, as only they agree to the conditions of that website.
They even say so on their own page:
They themselves state that they follow only a select number of accounts:
more on this: https://thunderskill.com/privacy_agreement
You can use TS for a very rough estimate of the performance of a vehicle, but I certainly wouldn’t trust it enough. You can use it somewhat to compare the same vehicle between nations (such as shermans or jacksons), but to base your ideas of BR placement solely on Thunderskill is not the way to go about it.
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A rough estimate is still more than what we get from Gaijin, which is absolutely nothing at all.
I can see the potential fun in them, but as rewards for events and such I think they’re wholly inappropriate. Skill or no their is an element of randomness to them that’s not great for a reward outside of maybe battle trophies. But in the battle pass or such, I definitely thing they don’t belong there.
I’m willing to accept that some people enjoy them, but I definitely don’t consider them useful or reward material.
I am however glad that some people enjoy them, at least they aren’t a complete bust.
I just find myself looking at them, orders, time limits on boosters and challenges and just being tired of it at this point.
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Really, GE wager? Remember when everyone was getting those wagers for free, randomly several times a year just for logging into the game? And then it was removed and now it is used as downgraded “reward” instead of actual battlepass reward, gated behind battlepass purchase.
I really wonder what free stuff will be removed next, to be turned into downgraded reward when Gaijin decides to remove yet another vehicle reward from battlepass …
Me when I learned I would get a GE wager instead of a ship coupon I can sell.
Ships didn’t have coupons and you couldn’t sell them
Thunderskill has cherry-picked statistics, which makes them forged ones. You can back up anything you claim with a forged statistic.
Then again, if you don’t trust them, you can claim any statistic they present you is forged too and there is no realistic way for them to prove you wrong.
See the problem?
that’s something that has been officially stated multiple times already, idk why you had to piece that together. also it is based on performance because there is more to performance than just k/d, which earnings are more accurate for.
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No one is picking the statistics from TS so they’re not cherry picked, they’re a sample size.
that’s something that has been officially stated multiple times already
Alright, where does it say this?
Some time ago they changed how the vehicle balancing works. Currently they take SL earnings into consideration, and if some vehicle is gaining “too much” SL when compared to other vehicles at the same BR, it usually goes up in BR.
There is a very good article about this change (which BTW players voted for) that explains pretty accurately how the old system worked and how the current system works:
In the past, repair costs were primarily based on a vehicle’s effective performance in battle. This meant that the best-performing vehicles would have the highest repair costs, requiring players to excel in battle to maintain a positive balance.
(…)
Following the next economy update, repair costs will no longer be balanced individually for each vehicle based on its performance or rank. Instead, economic parameters will now be calculated using the data of all vehicles of the same vehicle class and Battle Rating, after which they will be used to calculate reward multipliers and repair costs for each vehicle in accordance with its economic rank, which is determined by the vehicle’s rank and position within that rank. In effect, this means that all vehicles of the same class, Battle Rating and economic rank will share the same reward multiplier and repair cost going forward.
(…)
However, this new approach may lead to situations where certain individual vehicles are more effective at earning SL at a given Battle Rating than others. In such cases, we may use other methods, such as adjusting the vehicle’s Battle Rating, modifying its technical and combat characteristics where possible, i.e. altering access to certain shell types or adjusting reload speeds, or applying general balancing factors to all vehicles in that class. To clarify, we will only be changing soft factors such as these, and won’t artificially alter any elements such as armour thickness or top speed etc to change a vehicle’s performance.
I strongly recommend to read the article, if you are interested how the vehicles are currently balanced:
There is also a newer article, that explains how the vehicle “efficiency” works:
And if you were wondering, how they gather these stats, it’s actually very simple. If you open your profile, there are two columns that include SL/RP only from actions:
I never understood why these columns exist in this form, because from the players perspective this doesn’t really make sense. Especially after the battle RP rewards were changed to mostly time-based in 2021.
Basically battle rewards are like two separate rewards added together: mission rewards + action rewards. The columns in your profile only include action rewards. There is no way to check your total mission rewards, it’s not listed anywhere in your profile, you only see your total action rewards here.
So for example, you can see I gained 523k SL in total from actions on the Ar-2 bomber. You can easily calculate the SL per spawn, which is 523000 / 206 = 2539 SL per spawn at average. You can then compare this to other vehicle at the same BR to see which one is more effective. Of course the devs do this globally, not for individual players. And this explains why only rewards from actions are included in your profile.
If someone wants to understand mission and action rewards more, that’s how you calculate them based on your post-battle screen:
Spoiler
It’s basically: Total rewards - achievements - mission rewards - skill bonus = action rewards.
Action rewards are also shown during the battle, when you perform an action:
These rewards are not dependent from the battle time, your activity % or win/lose battle result. You also see them, when you leave the battle early (the game can’t show your mission rewards, as they depend from the battle which is still in progress result, so it only shows your action rewards).
I hope everything is a bit clearer now. For me such things are simply interesting.
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@OrsonES @Smin1080p_WT @Stona_WT
I am wondering, I just hit level 38 and got the chest, while oppening it i noticed that it doenst gave you all the stuff it should give.
(I had allready all ships before)
so I should get the 2x 100k SL and 2x the Wager right as written by the devs thenself)
Because it gives only 50% of it, you get 1x 100k SL and 1x the Wager.
Prove:
You can also look at the SL before and after the oppening
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Yeah, in all official statements they only state about 1x of each.
People saw thé 2x on thé crate and presumed otherwise.
Because thats what it says in game for the chest
Same for me, got 100k and 1 wager, I had assumed it would be 2 of each. Even TheEuropeanCanadian wondered in a video if that was a bug or if it really was just 1 each…
If it’s just one of each, fine, but then they did a really poor job on the Battle trophy content description…
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