I would like to suggest, with enthusiasm, that the MBT-70, and to some extent the Kpz-70, be lowered to a battlerating 9.0 in realistic matches. The suggestion is multifaceted and is as follows.
All of the projectiles of the MBT/Kpz-70 are sub-par at 10.3, however they are still viable between the battleratings of 9.0 to 10.0. This is where more modern configurations of armor begin to show up, many vehicles use either spaced armor or early composite, which all balances them out with one another. The main round used on the MBT/Kpz-70 is XM578E1, the penetration performance on this shell has been decreased drastically since its introduction and is now sitting as low as 285mm at 10m at 0º and 165mm at 10m at 60º. While I’m not here to argue if these penetrative stats are accurate, I am saying at a battlerating of 9.3, 10.3 becomes very challenging to keep up with enemy protection seeing as those tanks boast similar manueverabilty but significantly better protection and firepower. The culprits being the M1 Abrams/KVT, leopard 2 A4/PzBtl 123/Christian II, T-80B, Object 292, Bhishma TWMP, T-72 Moderna, etc. In cases where you do manage to front pen any one of these tanks XM578E1 post pentration damage is noticeabley inconsistent, which maybe due to the rounds properties. This leads to much added frustration and a feeling of why.
Mobility. While I understand MBT/Kpz-70 would boast significant mobility at 9.0, the XM803 already does this. At 9.0 matches the XM803 feels balanced in even full upteirs to 10.0. Having 1250HP engine allows for the tanks lackluster canon to get in and out of positions to effectively manage enemy vehicles and secure capture points. Having the MBT/Kpz-70 at 9.0 wouldn’t change the balance seeing as there are similarly fast vehicles occupying that battlerating.
The 20mm AA auto-canon. I do think that the 20mm poses the biggest balancing point. It is extremely good at dealing with light vehicles, as well as low flying aircraft. Trust me its satisfying watching a jet come in close to drop bombs as you start sending 20mm canon shells their way. But I think we need to put this in perspective. I firmly believe a 20mm should not dictate if these tanks have to fight 10.3 or 10.0 vehicles. Remember neither the MBT or Kpz-70 have access to thermal optics at 9.3 meaning in a sense its a trade off.
Reload. This is where i definitely lean towards the MBT-70 being lowered to 9.0. While the Kpz-70 gets an autoloader that reloads in 6.0 seconds the MBT-70 gets a reload that is 1.5 seconds longer at 7.5 seconds. This makes the tank reload slower than your russian 125mm canons at similar battle ratings, but those russian MBTs have the benefit of significantly better ammunition selection from 3BM9 to 3BM42. Granted russian MBTs are slower than their nato counterparts between 9.0 to 10.0, they do provide significantly better armor protection and firepower, making it balance out.
These reasons, i feel should indicate a lowered battlerating. Its not by much, however it leads to the tanks being useful. Some may say that other 9.3 mbts should have lower battlerating but those tanks have the benefit of significantly better ammunition with similar levels of mobility. Let me know what you all think. Sadly i find these tanks both fascinating from a design standpoint and they were a lot of fun back in the day and i would like them to be fun again.
It’s hard to balance these two vehicles even with the next BR changes, but I will agree that MBT-70 and KPZ-70 absolutely should not share the same BR, the KPZ is objectively MUCH better, not only having a better reload which is a difference between fastest and slowest reload at that BR (6s vs 7.5s) but it also gets double the smoke grenades and 25 extra HP.
I think that KPZ-70 is an absolute beast at 9.3 and it should definitely go up to 9.7 or we should move stuff like leopards to 9.0.
Also, yes I agree that the MBT-70 is worse with the reload being the biggest flaw. As I see it, MBT-70 should be 9.3 and KPZ 9.7, i think it can compare to leopard 2K without any problems
Currently, the 9.0 versus 9.3 BR is actually pretty clearly based on technology, with 9.0s having stabs and LRF but (usually) no thermals, and 9.3s having stabs, LRF, and thermals.
Even if there was decompression of the area, the MBT-/Kpz-70 shouldn’t be the ones to move down
I still think the KPZ-70 should move up to 9.7, now that a lot of other vehicles have moved up in BR (including the superior Leopard 2K).
The MBT-70 can finally not be inferior if that was the case, and the XM803 would still be worth it at 9.0.
MBT-70 is pretty terrible, especially at the moment. It will become mediocre after the BR changes.
XM803 is balanced at the moment. It will become good after the BR changes.
KPZ-70 is pretty good at the moment, and will become very good after the BR changes.
The KPZ-70 is almost just as manueverable as the Leopard 2K, gets a 20mm, and has a 6.0s reload instead of a 6.7s reload (that most vehicles get around this BR).
The only issue is the round (and the somewhat lackluster armour), which is just about as good as the T-62’s round, or the Object 122’s (which both sit at 8.7), or just about as good as the M735 shot that the XM-1 (GM) gets. This round can pen most things weakspots, coupled with the reload and mobility, makes it a very good vehicle.
Well yeah, definitely after the BR changes it will.
The KPZ should not be the same BR as the MBT-70, though. It should be 0.3 higher.
So I think the KPZ-70 should be moved up to 9.7, where the 2K used to be.
Or we could do it the other way:
Keep the KPZ-70 at 9.3, and move down the MBT-70 to 9.0, and the XM-803 to 8.7 (or keep it at 9.0 and make it be slightly inferior to the MBT-70).
In which case, that’s somewhat reasonable. But I don’t think making the XM-803 8.7 (may be far too good), or making it inferior to the MBT-70 is the best option here.