Making Russian Tank Protection more realistic

Machinery of War Discussion Ground Vehicle
,
296

This right here is very logical thinking and it just ticks my brain the right way when I read it.

Hopefully, more people say the same thing and we get this thing to change to top tier. It’s an important issue to the game as is the economy thing and all the boycott stuff.

I’m just sad that it wasn’t included in the boycott because it should. Guess there was too much stuff to pinpoint so this one went out of the window.

Just this is what bothers me the most! They get their historic armor even their most recent shell, but nato tanks can’t have that and they are stuck with nerfed armor and shells that aren’t the most recent ones.

Why would they nerf Leopard, Abrams, Merkava, Challenger, etc… and give all T series tanks historic values and even more that’s included in no spall at 90 degrees and many more? It’s just bothersome and screams favoritism so much.

I would maybe get it if their airforce and helicopters were bad so they need to somehow buff so they can compete. But ka 52 has their all load outs and AH64D is still an ah64a with longbow skin since radar doesn’t work and it doesn’t have fire and forget…

So all the great working shiny new things go to Russia.

Hey, let’s give them prototype 2s38 as a premium cause why not?

It’s just blatant favoritism if you ask me.

I just found this picture on the Reddit post that someone posted… And it’s hilarious because I see it all the time. There are more Russian players in the queue than all other players combined at top tier…

You can also look at the statistics at Thunderskill to see which vehicle is the most played. I don’t need to tell you which one is that.

i-am-sure-most-of-the-playerbase-is-playing-top-tier-russia-v0-6t6k97bmv9hb1

3 Likes
297

I also think we have to put pressure on now. Yesterday I looked at a profile because the player had a 75% win rate and 750 dead to 2500 kills on the BVM. That’s OP… So a lot of people complain in form, the statistics of BVM are over 65%+ for many players.
Thunderskill also shows the OP statistics from BVM. So how many facts still have to show? That an adjustment or nerf is coming?

3 Likes
298

Yep, I casually look at player statistics and see the same thing. Many of them only have Russia and basically, bvm is their main tank. That kind of ‘‘competitive’’ people, kids whatever tend to flock towards the broken stuff and spam it all day. And the game should focus on removing that option from them and that should be a priority in a healthy environment. But somehow it isn’t. And they ruin the games and fun for all others and it is all allowed by Gajin by not balancing the top tier at all. It’s totally obvious, we are not talking about something that is really complicated to fix, it’s REALLY obvious as is the solution. I don’t know how they can look at that statistic and be like ‘’ okay, everything is fine here, everyone is having fun. Nothing to be bothered about, move on ‘’

299

Gaiji just has to think about whether they want to continue like this and lose players as a result, or whether they want to fix the game now.

300

When your (T-80BVM) opponents (M1A2 SEP) have 395mm KE hulls and their whole center of mass is a 50mm thick flat plate… what does it matter if your round penetrates 560mm or 629mm? It will go through anyway.

Likewise: when your (M1A2 SEP) opponent (T-80BVM) has a 720mm KE hull… what does it matter if your round penetrates 629mm? It won’t go through anyway.

4 Likes
301

I doubt that Gaijin will ever get off their hands in regards to actually balancing Russian vehicles. I want it to happen but the odds are slim to none.

2 Likes
302

If gaijin balanced russian tanks like this with their correct armour protection and if apfsds had correct penetration, this is what it would look like.

Russia
T-72A “83” - 9.3BR (3BM15 / 3BM22)
T-72B “85” - 9.7BR (3BM26 / 3BM29)
T-72B “89” - 10.0BR (3BM32/42)
T-90A - 10.3BR (3BM32 / 3BM42)
T-72B3 - 10.7BR (3BM42 / 3BM42-2)
T-72B3M - 11.0BR (3BM59 / 3BM60)
T-90M - 11.7BR (3BM59 / 3BM60)
T-14 Armata Prod. - 12.3BR (3BM69/70)

T-64A - 9.0BR (3BM9 / 3BM15)
T-64B “82” - 9.3BR (3BM15 / 3BM22)
T-64BV - 9.7BR (3BM26 / 3BM29)
T-80BV - 9.7BR (3BM26 / 3BM29)
T-80U “86” - 10.0BR (3BM32 / 3BM42)
T-80UM - 10.7BR (3BM42-2 / 3BM46)
Black Eagle - 11.0BR (3BM59 / 3BM60)
T-80BVM - 11.7BR (3BM59 / 3BM60)
T-14 Armata Proto. - 12.0BR (3BM59/60)

US
M60A1 RISE - 8.7BR (M735)
Will only penetrate T-64A and T-72A “79” without that 16mm add on plate and anything weaker including T-55AM and T-62M-1

M60A3 TTS - 9.3BR (M774)
M774 = 353mm @ 0m
Will only be able to penetrate T-72A “83” upper plate at very close range under ideal conditions. Only T-64A and fixed (buffed) T-55AM and T-62M will be easy targets.

M1 Abrams - 9.7BR (M774)
M774 = 353mm @ 0m
Will only be able to penetrate T-72A “83” upper plate at very close range under ideal conditions. Only T-64A and fixed (buffed) T-55AM and T-62M will be easy targets.

IPM1 Abrams - 10.0BR (M833)
M833 = 396mm @ 0m
Will only penetrate T-64B “82” and T-64BV and anything else with weaker armour.

M1A1 Abrams - 10.3BR (M829)
M829 = 453mm @ 0m
Will penetrate T-72B “85”, T-80BV and anything else with weaker armour.

M1A1HA Abrams - 10.7BR (M829)
M829 = 453mm @ 0m
Will penetrate T-72B “85”, T-80BV and anything else with weaker armour.

M1A1HC Abrams - 11.3BR (M829A1)
M829A1 = 600mm @ 0m
Will penetrate T-80U, T-80UM, Black Eagle, T-72B “89”, T-90A, T-72B3, T-72B3M and anything else with weaker armour.

M1A2 Baseline - 11.3BR (M829A1)
M829A1 = 600mm @ 0m
Will penetrate T-80U, T-80UM, Black Eagle, T-72B “89”, T-90A, T-72B3, T-72B3M and anything else with weaker armour.

M1A2 SEP V1 - 11.7BR (M829A2)
M829A2 = 638mm @ 0m
Will penetrate T-80U, T-80UM, Black Eagle, T-72B “89”, T-90A, T-72B3, T-72B3M and anything else with weaker armour but still not good enough vs Russian 11.7BR.

M1A2 SEP V2 - 12.0BR (M829A3)
M829A3 = 700-710mm @ 0m
Will penetrate T-80BVM and anything weaker. Still not good enough vs T-90M and T-14 Armata.

M1A2 SEP V3 - 12.3BR (M829A4)
M829A4 = ~745mm @ 0m
Will penetrate T-90M hull under ideal conditions at close distances under 750m distance only and anything else that’s weaker. T-14 hull still invunrable.

NOTE:

  1. Gaijin can always decompress the list of BR’s if the maximum BR cap increased

  2. I didn’t include Anti ERA effect of M829A3 and M829A4 to keep armour relevance in the game for the sake of balance and for the sake of not making armour completely irrelevant when rounds like this and Shard APFSDS get added

4 Likes
303

France

AMX-30B BRENUS - 9.0BR (OFL 105 F1)
OFL 105 F1 = 362mm @ 0m
Enough to Penetrate T-72A “83” and T-64B “82” under ideal conditions at close range and anything weaker.

AMX-32 (105) - 9.3BR (OFL 105 F1)
OFL 105 F1 = 362mm @ 0m
Enough to Penetrate T-72A “83” and T-64B “82” under ideal conditions at close range and anything weaker.

AMX-32 (120) - 9.7BR (OFL 120 G1)
OFL 120 G1 = 396mm @ 0m
Will only penetrate T-64B “82” and T-64BV and anything else with weaker armour.

AMX-40 - 10.0BR (OFL 120 G1)
OFL 120 G1 = 396mm @ 0m
Will only penetrate T-64B “82” and T-64BV and anything else with weaker armour.

Ares - 10.7BR (OFL 120 G1 L/52)
OFL 120 G1 L/52 = 426mm @ 0m
Will penetrate T-80BV, then T-72B “85” only under ideal conditions at super close range. Also anything weaker than those two tanks.

Leclerc S1 - 11.3BR (OFL 120 F1)
OFL 120 F1 = 589mm @ 0m
Will penetrate T-72B “89”, T-90A, T-72B3, T-72B3M, T-80U, T-80UM, Black Eagle and anything weaker

Leclerc S2 - 11.3BR (OFL 120 F2)
OFL 120 F1 = 613mm @ 0m
Will penetrate T-72B “89”, T-90A, T-72B3, T-72B3M, T-80U, T-80UM, Black Eagle and anything weaker

Leclerc SXXI - 12.0BR (Shard Mk.1)
Shard Mk 1 = 720mm @ 0m
Will penetrate T-80BVM and anything weaker

Leclerc XLR - 12.0BR (Shard Mk.1)
Shard Mk 1 = 720mm @ 0m
Will penetrate T-80BVM and anything else weaker

3 Likes
304

If you don’t hit center mass, you’ll hit a fuel tank which adds too much armor to that front plate for the round to be effective.
Hence why I aim for the IDLER WHEEL of Abrams when they go around corners, with turret rings as an alternative.

Just as I hit idler wheels.

@GNDM_Panzer
I one day wish Soviet vehicles are as powerful as American & Swedish vehicles.
For now, they’re inferior. Worse lineups for ground, limited options for air.

@Sombralix
APFSDS currently has correct penetration.

305

cant wait for shard

306

Still won’t penetrate T-80BVM at point blank range, not even close if Russian armour doesn’t get fixed

307

Not all APFSDS does hence why I wrote the corrected values at 0 degrees at point blank range

308

that’s fine just any improvement will help Leclerc rn as ofl 120 f1b is just so poor rn the way its modeled hopefully weak spots will remain the same even with ofl 120 f2 but the rounds help make them more forgiving on snap shots

309

We have no IRL testing against T-80BVM + Relikt ERA.
The picture thrown around thus far is a DM55 round that missed the ERA completely.

@Macekeeks You’ll be waiting indefinitely, cause we’re not getting ammunition all countries can’t have some equivalents to.

310

well everyone can front pen basically everything but Russian mbts and strv 122 currently so i dont see why that’s a problem

311

image

Actually at high velocities the DU OFL 120 F2 is inferior to OFL 120 F1.

Not only because Tungsten at 1790m/s outperforms DU but also due to F2’s lower velocity as a result of heavier DU rod. That being said, Depleted Uranium is very cheap and France has loads of it. Tungsten is expensive

ALTERNATIVELY OFL 120 F1 has 600mm x 22mm WHA rod giving it 4.0kg penetrator. If OFL 120 F2 was a direct copy of F1 with DU rod the projectile would be only 0.25kg heavier which would not justify the velocity drop from 1790m/s for F1 vs 1720m/s for the OFL 120 F2. It’s possible the F2 used different penetrator altogether. If Wikipedia is correct then the OFL 120 F2 would be 650mm long DU penetrator giving it 345mm @ 2000m (60) - 690 LOS of penetration which would make the penetrator heavier enough to justify the velocity drop from 1790m/s to 1720m/s.
However even then you’re going from 589mm @ 0m with OFL 120 F1 to 613mm @ 0m with OFL 120 F2

2 Likes
312

The problem is when Germany, Japan, Italy, China, Swedes, and Soviets don’t have equivalent rounds to SHARD & M829A3. Allegedly Vacuum, but only 1 tank in the Soviet tech tree right now has the autoloader and gun to fire that round: T-72B3, and it can alleged only fit 11 rounds due to its length.

And the only manner in which case that all but Italy & China can get superior ammunition, is if you prove Type 10’s gun breech allowable pressures, and L/55s allowable pressures, are higher than M829A3 or SHARD for them to be given either ammunition for balancing purposes.
Italy can’t cause they use standard L/44 derivative so pressures aren’t high enough, and China uses 125mm guns.

313

i understand im still assuming we will get the next step of tanks relatively soon and i would expect brs to deviate more to well not everyone is going to 12.0 kind of situation like japan, Britain, and Italy i would imagine would stay where they are at in br
im assuming we are because of data mines like the Leopard 2 PSO which would just be a strv 122 for germany really

314

They won’t be deviating as much as you think since we’re at max ammo types outside of 3BM59 & OFL F2, possibly L28 as well.
And honestly? It’s good to have workable armor at top BRs.
Whether that’s Leopard 2A5, M1A2/A1 HC, T-80BVM with Relikt [emphasis on the Relikt, its armor is rather bad once it’s gone], or Strv 122.

War Thunder makes aiming easy.
Third person giving us a crosshair & optic down the barrel.
Shooting tanks because you third person aimed over a fence is common enough that it’s done at least 1 time every 5 matches, and it’s common enough that those tanks are up to & exceeding 1km away from that fence you’re shooting through in third person.

I ain’t saying get rid of either feature, cause doing so would end the idler wheel weakspot on all tanks.

315

right now i think the rounds are fine vs the tanks we are fighting but most the top tier tanks right now have been in the game a year or more idk im just expecting another jump in armor protection