Making Russian Tank Protection more realistic

[Sombralix]

If Gaijin implemented armour more realistically

China
Type 88A = 380mm KE vs APFSDS
ZTZ96 = 380mm KE vs APFSDS
ZTZ96A = 540mm KE vs APFSDS
ZTZ96B = 540mm KE vs APFSDS
ZTZ99-I = 420mm KE vs APFSDS
ZTZ99-II = 600mm KE vs APFSDS
ZTZ99-III = 600mm KE vs APFSDS
ZTZ99A = 600mm KE vs APFSDS

Russia
T-80BV = 404mm KE vs APFSDS
T-80U = 506mm KE vs APFSDS
T-72B = 442mm KE vs APFSDS
T-90A = 550mm KE vs APFSDS
T-80BVM = 674mm KE vs APFSDS
T-90M = 735mm KE vs APFSDS

Germany
Leopard 2A4 = 350mm KE vs APFSDS
Leopard 2A5 = 420-450m KE vs APFSDS

Actually i would like to add that the ZTZ99’s upper plate has the same UFOing issue as russian top tier tanks

[tripod2008]

@Sombralix

480BHN High Hardness Steel would offer 1.1855x more protection vs M774 at 2000m.
300BHN Steel would offer 1.05x more protection vs M774 at 2000m.

A point to make here is that a higher BHN rating should generally produce spalling with larger mass, so while it improves protection (due to observed Ultimate Tensile Strength increases meaning more energy is need to make a plate fail thus redirecting more energy away from the penetrator) it makes post penetration more damaging due to the impact imparting more energy to the ejecta so the count and average size of fragments should be increased.

If this were implemented damage would at least be more quantifiable and occur in stages since with the relevant tanks the Spall Liner would capture a greater percentage of the more numerous, smaller, high velocity fragments leaving the larger lower velocity ones to do the damage and would likely spread less so damage would be higher and more focused than it is.

[D00MBrInG3r777]

Come on guys, we can’t let this topic die. We need balance badly at top tier. This topic is golden!

Russian mbt’s are ridiculous everyone plays them. Especially now since most of the maps are cqb run and gun.

They really need to be nerfed once for all so all vehicles have a chance. It’s getting to ridiculous. It’s enough seeing 8,10 bvms per game running and not dying half the time by the shots they should. Everybody knows this and exploits it to the fullest.

My suggestion is that autoloaders need to have damage model, and need to be repaired when hit so they get reload penalty too. It’s just one of the game mechanic that is hand holding them badly at this moment.

They can just continue shooting without any problems when penetrated yet all other tanks that have a loader get penalty when loader gets killed… It’s a massive issue and an advantage…

Leclerc can get better round and it could still be good tank if that happens… Japanese better armor to compensate for that… Chinese better reload too

Russians really don’t need anything, they will get balanced and more people will strive to try other nations at last cause they are very unique too .

They really shouldn’t be shooting you back after you penetrated them and hit their autoloader at least…

They are very fragile vehicles in reall life and they are buffed too much and everything is given artificially to them. It really shouldn’t be like that.
To the point, I don’t find them fun playing cause it’s not a challenge also not very historical.
My bvm is not fully spaded I just don’t find it fun and I feel like a cheat when I play it since it has an unpenetrable uper front plate and ridiculously small weak spots…

I see playersshowing me their sides on purpose knowing that most of the time the shot will do nothing and really it does nothing… It shouldn’t be like that…
When I played t72b3 one game like months ago I got a nuke in first game.
m1a2 shot me at 90 degree angle and did nothing multiple times and that’s what got me the nuke.

And game promotes that it follows historical performance as much as possible but I just don’t see that happening at all. It just caters to the specific audience either that gives them most of the revenue or just being biased as people say they are.

Also, their armor is massively overperforming to the point that is ridiculous. Especially where two era blocks merge. It can get at 1000mm of protection at those spots.

And by the way, nobody can at least tell me and other experienced players that it’s a skill issue.

I and many others who say the same thing are good players who have all vehicles in the game and very unbiased opinions who just strive to make this game a little more bearable at top tier where everything is very unbalanced gameplay that usually ends the match in 5 minutes most of the time now.

[Macekeeks]

in my opinion Russian mbts aren’t massively over performing gaijin has nato tanks massively under performing

[D00MBrInG3r777]

Well, here it’s clearly greatly pointed out that they are overperforming, and ALSO western tanks are underperforming. So we get both of those worlds :D

[Macekeeks]

if gaijin made it so the powder bags explode and not the shells Russian/soviet tanks would be far more balanced but they haven’t done that because even if they were easier to pen it doesn’t change anything if stuff doesn’t blow up when hit

[D00MBrInG3r777]

I agree, that’s also the case, unfortunately…

[AlvisWisla]

All tanks do rather equal in CQB for one reason: Idler wheels.
No matter what you do you have to go around a corner, that includes Soviet tanks.
And that idler wheel is a weakspot on all tanks, and the T-80’s goes straight to ammunition.

I can tell you from the 20 matches I played of T-80BVM last week, not a single player shot my idler wheel.
And few shot my side armor at all.
You even admit an M1A2 had an issue with skill shooting you.

So maybe… people need to actually shoot the weak points instead of blaming the tank.
If the autoloader gets it it explodes because there’s ammo inside, so your suggestion wouldn’t do anything.

You claim Soviets & Germans don’t need anything, but both have been without a new 11.7 MBT for years.

Good players are in Soviet vehicles, but you swap the players and M1A2s would one shot all the T-80s, and T-80s would bounce off of M1A2s every day.

@D00MBrInG3r777

It just caters to the specific audience either that gives them most of the revenue or just being biased as people say they are.

You mean the entire playerbase.
The most revenue comes from Americans, 2nd to none.
And there’s no bias toward any nation. Soviet tanks receive the same documentation requirements as all other tanks.
Also, self-proclaimed good player, you yourself should’ve mentioned the idler wheel weakspot of every single tank that CQ combat forces people to expose.

@Macekeeks

@Macekeeks

gaijin made it so the powder bags explode and not the shells

Both explode as of over 2 months ago. My last test was a week ago, and the test before that was last year cause getting people to test things takes time.

[Baymax0306]

I LOVE you dude. This will be a slap to USSR tank faces that it’s very obvious that there are really something fishy going on here. We can just only complain about this but they choose to have a blind eyes about this which is crazy. Hopefully you can also have detailed information for the 2S38’'s and TURMS.

[Macekeeks]

they do its just very inconsistent the odd part is hitting the shells is consistent im assuming its a ping issue or just general server issues that make the powder feel this way as in custom battles or test drive the ammo feels very sensitive

[AlvisWisla]

There’s no inconsistency.
I tested this personally.
Of all the ammunition that hit ammo, I exploded in random battles, and my targets in custom battles exploded with a 100% chance.

NOW, there might be shrapnel to this. Cause I would say over half of my ammo’s shrapnel hits ammo on T-80s cause I aim for idler wheels & side armor, which means the shrapnel will be concentrated, and likely to guarantee an ammo rack.

If only 1 tiny bit of shrapnel hits any ammo of any tank, I doubt it’s going off consistently.

[Macekeeks]

it could be just a lack of spall damage yeh i dont have any issues one shotting ammo when using dm53 or m829a2 but as soon as i use a shell less than like 590mm of pen it just feels terrible in post pen

[Macekeeks]

it can also make it hard to tell when ammo actually blew up because 90% of my kills on russian tanks are fuel explosions

[AlvisWisla]

I remember starkly killing T-80s using L26, L27, and M829A1.
Can’t talk on OFL F1 cause Soviets have largely been on my teams when playing Leclerc, so no real experience against them this year.

Also fuel explosion is true as well, usually you can tell the ammo exploded as well as the fuel based on the hit camera.

[Macekeeks]

from what i have seeing with OFL F1b the round shatters on one of the internal plates when taking a shot like this and that’s without the era upgrade

[AlvisWisla]

Well at that angle you’re rear idler wheel, front forward road wheel for that shot.
Idler wheel is for “around corner” people, and people that forget they shouldn’t be angling.

[Macekeeks]

there are definitely ways around but that could be why it feels so random is because the round sometimes shatters before hitting the ammo leaving it up to spall damage to kill it seems to only really affect these relatively low pen rounds for top tier from my experience that is

[RedCoast777]

What I don’t understand is that the BVM gets its right armor but the Leo2A6 doesn’t get its right ammo (DM53A1/DM63). The BVM would counter. This is just unfair and shows that Russians are preferred. 2100 views in the form show that the Russians proplem is not out of thin air.

[D00MBrInG3r777]

This right here is very logical thinking and it just ticks my brain the right way when I read it.

Hopefully, more people say the same thing and we get this thing to change to top tier. It’s an important issue to the game as is the economy thing and all the boycott stuff.

I’m just sad that it wasn’t included in the boycott because it should. Guess there was too much stuff to pinpoint so this one went out of the window.

Just this is what bothers me the most! They get their historic armor even their most recent shell, but nato tanks can’t have that and they are stuck with nerfed armor and shells that aren’t the most recent ones.

Why would they nerf Leopard, Abrams, Merkava, Challenger, etc… and give all T series tanks historic values and even more that’s included in no spall at 90 degrees and many more? It’s just bothersome and screams favoritism so much.

I would maybe get it if their airforce and helicopters were bad so they need to somehow buff so they can compete. But ka 52 has their all load outs and AH64D is still an ah64a with longbow skin since radar doesn’t work and it doesn’t have fire and forget…

So all the great working shiny new things go to Russia.

Hey, let’s give them prototype 2s38 as a premium cause why not?

It’s just blatant favoritism if you ask me.

I just found this picture on the Reddit post that someone posted… And it’s hilarious because I see it all the time. There are more Russian players in the queue than all other players combined at top tier…

You can also look at the statistics at Thunderskill to see which vehicle is the most played. I don’t need to tell you which one is that.

[RedCoast777]

I also think we have to put pressure on now. Yesterday I looked at a profile because the player had a 75% win rate and 750 dead to 2500 kills on the BVM. That’s OP… So a lot of people complain in form, the statistics of BVM are over 65%+ for many players.
Thunderskill also shows the OP statistics from BVM. So how many facts still have to show? That an adjustment or nerf is coming?