Don’t strawman, stuff like the Tornado IDS WTD61 aren’t better than the phantoms.
No one mentioned a 11.3 Tornado.
I’ll just leave my thoughts here, but I generally agree, especially in regards to the drop tanks.
Not without the removal of Aim-9Ls as it is an upgrade over the F-4S and F-4J.
Move the J(UK) down to 11.7.
Give one of the other F-4s Aim-9Ls, and the other SuperTEMPs.
Completely agree, especially since Germany does not need 5 11.0 planes.
Not without an appropriate BR increase as it is a good 12.0 at the moment. Same goes for the F-4J.
The lack of sources for more modern things also kills any attempt to bug report stuff, and leaves stuff purely based on the whim of however gaijin chooses to initially model it or “fix” it.
Not really. The AIM-9L isn’t all that effective anymore, and the aircraft would only have a slight advantage over its rivals, mainly because of its radar. It’s not a particularly common aircraft either. More people would probably start playing it, but the same would likely happen with the other Phantoms as well.
It would be one of the stronger options at its BR, but it definitely wouldn’t be overpowered.
There’s always going to be a top dog at every BR.
The No. 74 Squadron F-4J(UK) entered service when the AIM-9L was the RAF’s standard short-range air to air missile. Giving it AIM-9Ls, along with additional countermeasures, would significantly improve its survivability. Pairing those upgrades with Skyflash SuperTEMPs would also make the aircraft far more competitive.
The FGR.2 would benefit from the same loadout as well. Rather than leaving this premium aircraft to continue struggling, these changes would finally bring it up to the standard players expected. Considering people paid $70 for it, I think these improvements would be more than justified and greatly appreciated.
It would basically come down to, “Well, everyone has them now, so nobody’s really special anymore.”
It’s not like Gaijin is holding them back for balance reasons because they’ve simply forgotten to add them. The F-14A at 12.7 still doesn’t have its AIM-9Ls, for example.
It’ll be fine, and I don’t think it’ll cause any major issues, especially once proper decompression is implemented. It’ll feel a lot like the old top tier again.
Don’t forget the premium Japan Phantom.
I didn’t mention that one because I think it’s perfect. They could probably equip it with slightly better fox 1 missiles.
If there’s something you’re not happy about you can talk about it in here 👍Forgotten Aircraft Discussion
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It’ll make 11.0/11.3 planes that face them so much worse to play for sure (and overall degrade the quality of that decently balanced BR bracket). It’ll also make powercreep worse by buffing vehicles and not adjusting their BR accordingly.
I mainly think that they should all be differentiated slightly between each other as to not have 2-3 functionally identical aircraft in the same tree and at the same BR. Howerver that is done doesn’t really matter as long as they are not overbuffed.
The phantoms can keep the loadout as is as soon as:
-Su33, F18, F16, Su27, Mig 29, Kfir, J11 Jas sucking each other dicks at another BR above.
I disagree about that due to F-4J(UK)
F-4J(UK) is straight worse than both F-4K/M and F-4J/S, still sharing completely identical BR with F-4J/S.
If decompression comes up (Which everyone knows won’t gonna happen), some change which OP suggest might not be needed; still, F-4J(UK) need loadout improvement. ngl.
Also, why should we say no to improving stock loadout…?
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Then it should get downtier.
If Gaijin not being generous to improve it.
Nobody cares about stock loadout since everybody has to grind this fucking game.
AIM-9Ls are currently in a more powerful state than when they were first introduced.
They are more powerful now than ever before.
AIM-9Ls are a massive upgrade over AIM-9P4s & AIM-9J/Gs.
Nobody cares… because everybody has to grind,
No no no, that is why we need to take care of these.
Improving stock loadout makes it easier for everyone to grind to Spade.
If you imagine that you are forced to fight against Rafale when you are barely holding 2X AIM-9L only when you fly with stock Eurofighter or F-15C/E, then you might understand what I am talking about.
if you want to grind some shit, you need to frag something, enemy planes, bot attacker targets, or ground targets such as pillboxes.
If you get improved stock loadout (Example: 2x AIM-9G & 2x Skyflash instead of 2x AIM-9D for F-4K/M), you can have minimum self-defence against those damn bastards in Rank 8.
Just like how Rank 8/9 jets got.
The problem is Gaijin improved stock loadouts of Rank 8/9 such as Rafale, Mirage 2000 or F/A-18, while they don’t give a damn about Rank 7 jets, which are forced to fight against those. F-4J/K/M, or Mirage F1C and such.
They are essentially need a reasonable stock loadout - this should be a QOL feature and out of the question when people asking for it
However, the problem at hand is the compression and incompetent loadout capabilities → BALANCE should be the main reason.
Theoretically the EJ Kai could also get AAM-4s since they were tested on a F-4EJ Kai…
Buttttt I would prefer this to be a separate aircraft, perhaps at 12.7 or 13.0 with the F-4F ICE (ICE has Agile Eagle and a Better radar so hence the 12.7 suggestion.)
I don’t see why the EJ Kai couldn’t get AAM-3 though. It would basically just be a worse F-15J.
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Not quite. More 11.0 and 11.3 aircraft are being added to the game with all-aspect missiles. At the end of the day, these aren’t F-15s or Su-30s, they’re just Phantoms. If you have any concerns you can express them in this discussion I made.
That’s not a very strong argument when you consider how many other vehicles in the game are in the same situation. By that logic, we should remove the F-14D’s loadout because it’s too similar to the F-14B’s, and then get rid of countless other loadouts simply because they overlap as well.
The replies aren’t working, weird. @Ion_492
I’m not too sure about the AAM-4 being added to that phantom, that would make it pretty scary. The only reason the AAM-3 still hasn’t been added is because Gaijin takes ages to add things to already existing aircraft in game, especially the forgotten ones. They did add the AIM-7M to the aircraft recently so it might happen soon.
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I won’t go any further.
Kurnass 2000 entered service in 1989. Same year as the F-15E. 6 years after the F-117. It was obsolete the year of it’s first flight as a military jet. It was used for CAS, interception, and SEAD. 11.7 with AGM-88 will be excellent and pared with ECM as IRL, even overpowered. So think about CAS for a CAS jet, not air-to-air. Any BR over 11.7 will give the same gameplay with only Fox-2 and no maneuvrability.
Conclusion : Don’t try to fit a square peg into a round hole. It wasn’t meant for air-to-air, and ARB is just about that. History had wars, and any jet had good points that have been enlightened with those conflicts. Just need to find them and use them, and surprise, it will work.
Maybe some F-4 have a BR slighty too high, but I don’t think I’ll put my voice here since some subjects needs more attention.
None of that justifies it sharing the same BR as the F-16s. You’re basically defending Gaijin’s inconsistent battle ratings.
Your entire argument is, “It’s good at ground attack, so it shouldn’t move down in Air Battles.” That logic doesn’t make much sense.
I honestly don’t think you took the time to properly read this post, or the others I’ve made on the subject, so there’s not much point continuing this discussion.
Have a nice day.
Way better in term of CAS, mounted armament, ammount of missile, sometimes radar.
3 out of the 15 F-4 have a BR in common with an F-16.
Those are : F-4EJ Kai, Kurnass 2000 at 12.3. Same BR as F-16 with 2/3 of their counter-measures. They also have way more advanced suspended armament.
And the F-4F late, that has access to Aim-120’s at the lowest BR with the Tornado F.3 and a couple AV-8’s.
F-16:
I think you are the one making it an issue.