they are probably great when they’re aced but when they’re bone stock they are crap and unplayable especially these days with what’s in the game
I really need to spade my leftover F-4K, but I am shunned from playing it.
F/A-18A might finish off the F-4K just like how a full-grown man snaps a baby cat’s neck :/
Damn compressions, Regular skyflash might not have a chance while I would be forced to have only 2x AIM-9D :/
That’s fine, we came to an agreement on that, so don’t get it twisted. I’m not mad. I just think there should be a lot more discussion surrounding this. Without your help, I probably wouldn’t have pushed for the Skyflash SuperTEMP in the first place.
I also think it could be added as a quality-of-life and balancing improvement. Gaijin has already made similar exceptions before, such as giving the F-4F Early AIM-9Js despite that not being a historically accurate loadout.
That got me wondering: why would they add that?
The tech tree F-4F should have AIM-9Ls, but it doesn’t because Gaijin originally left them out for balance reasons. The F-4F Early is in the same situation, which makes me wonder if it’s also an early interpretation of the Peace Rhine upgrade, just without the AIM-9Ls for the sake of balance.
If that’s the case, then both aircraft should receive AIM-9Ls. The F-4F Early should also receive the rest of the historically accurate Peace Rhine upgrades, rather than being left in this half-upgraded state.
i want to spade both british ones but being unable to do anything with just 2 aim9ds its almost impossible
Fun point, if we get stock improvement, just like how Rank 8-9 gets
(2x AIM-9D → 2x AIM-9G + 2x Skyflash)
Still they might have kicked their ass off by those undertiered American jets.
F/A-18A, C Early, bloody F-15A, and F-14B(buffed)/D.
At least they might not facing those cursed premium Su-30s in 13.3BR :|
That’s another thing I forgot to mention, giving them two AIM-9Ls would also make the stock grind much easier. The AIM-9G replaces the AIM-9D , while the AIM-9L becomes the aircraft’s top-tier infrared missile. The same thing applies to every other Phantom.
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Predicting Peak Gaijin moment
Add AIM-9L but still stock missile is AIM-9D
2x AIM-9D → 4x AIM-9D → 9G → 9L
🤦♀️
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I don’t want a 12.3 Phantom though. It’ll still end up facing F-15s post-decompression, and definitely more early AMRAAM carriers.
The foresight to see how bad a decision that is when they’re already strong 12.0s.
Strong 12.0 =/= not suffering from 13.0’s compression.
F-4E should also have AIM-9Ls as at the current battle raiting it sits at its loadout is not up to the task the majority of players are near the ground multipathing which makes the F-4Es only real advantage against most aircraft (the radar missiles) be completely useless because the radar has very poor ground clutter resistance making it so that when its fighting an enemy low down the phantom is at a disadvantige because although it has more altitude the enemy can fire their missiles at it and the phantom can do nothing but defend even in head-on scenarios lets say an F-4E and a MIG-23MLD are going head to head in a joust the phantom has the guns and thats all the options it has but the MIG-23 which is supposed to be its counterpart in game has access to all of its missiles because the MTI filter making it so it can fire all of its radar missiles and all of its IR missiles with its only limiting factor being how close the phantom is to the ground and weather they are effectively multipathing
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Don’t forget the aim9j
I had an idea a while back where the current F-4E would be upgraded to a later production block, giving it AIM-7Ms and AIM-9Ls so it would be on par with the other late-model Phantoms. At the same time, the F-4D could be added to take the F-4E’s current spot in the tech tree.
This reworked F-4E would eliminate the need for unnecessary copy paste additions while also introducing more guided bombs and other air to ground ordnance, making it a much more capable aircraft in Ground Battles.
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Just so I don’t lose track, an overwhelming majority of people have supported implementing changes to these aircraft. There have been 95 votes in favor of changes across part 1, 2 and 3 so far, including roughly 30 votes from the polls that were removed from this discussion. Supporters here wanted to see varying degrees of improvements made to the Phantoms.
By comparison, there were only 8 votes in all discussions against making any changes at all.
Once people have had a chance to read through the posts I’ve made and the discussions we’ve had I’ll publish one final poll to wrap up the Phantom section of the Forgotten Aircraft suggestions.
as a britain player mostly i want the british phantoms to get their improvements, getting super temps, getting aim9L, getting sraam on the fgr2 and more counter measures on the f4j uk, would be nice to see the fg1 go down a rating to 11.7. but if it was me the whole british tree would look different as the fgr2 would be before the tornado f3 which i would give aim9m and bump up to 12.3 and move the typhoons after the f3 late
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These are all simple changes that wouldn’t break the game’s balance. Move the Israeli and Japanese Phantoms down in BR, give the British and German Phantoms better missiles, and equip the U.S. Navy Phantoms with AIM-9Ls.
These changes would make the Phantoms far more competitive without making them overpowered. The AIM-9L isn’t that scary when everyone has one, they’d simply be on a more level playing field.
(Not talking about you, dw) You guys should make your own posts about this stuff. Stop arguing that XYZ aircraft can’t move down just because another aircraft has a terrible battle rating because gaijin completely forgot about this, that logic makes no sense. Have some balls, guys. The more people who speak up and make posts about this kinda stuff, the better.
Have they just forgotten about this too?
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EJ KAI has a upgraded radar and is a direct upgrade compared to the F4J why make them same br tho that makes no sense it also has a internal gun its literally a better version
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agree, especially for the british ones, better weapons (super temps, aim9L, sraam, additional countermeasures) would be nice little fixed that would improve the whole grind, and wouldn’t break balance, fact it might make britain more competitive as for me it always feels like we get shafted and are always fighting a losing fight, look at the performance of the harrier for that example
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It has the better F-16 radar, but it still lacks Agile Eagle, which is a disadvantage in close engagements. It’ll only be slightly better than the other Phantoms.
It’s also limited to four AIM-7Ms, while the naval Phantoms carry six AIM-7Fs, putting it at a slight disadvantage in BVR combat.
I’m also trying to avoid bias. I could’ve made a post asking only for the F-4J(UK) to be improved, but that wouldn’t be fair to the other Phantom variants. Despite its improved radar, it still struggles against the far more sophisticated aircraft it regularly faces, and its stock grind is already widely regarded as an awful experience. A lower BR would help bring it back into a more competitive environment without making it overpowered. We won’t get any kind of proper decompression any time soon. They still haven’t moved the Su-30 up, and it’s been a year now. You’ve suffered long enough, haven’t you?
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Gore isn’t allowed in the WarThunder forums
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Is a disadvantage in dogfights.*
However, not in dogfights it’s an advantage.
Boom & zoom? Advantage.
EJ Kai to this day remains the only aircraft I’ve obtained back-to-back aces for good reason.