let me repeat this.
You said “the list changes a lot when you factor in cap”
I said that it really doesn’t, you just overvalue the Su-34. because that “revised list” is the same as my list when I don’t factor in CAP.
Doesn’t matter, options exist which is an important value in battles. Id rather have a second vehicle rather than having to rely on 1 vehicle exclusively.
thermals don’t decide what is and isn’t top tier? Do you need thermals to spot tanks? I don’t
I do
im blind
i see in 240p irl
ingame i see 500x300 because gaijin wouldnt buf thermal res
No but target acquisition time is an important factor IF spaa is up. Regardless having options and multiple CAS/CAP vehicles is a very important aspect of a nations lineup.
I was surprised to discover that the Rafale carried nuclear missile ASMPA apparently has a higher yield than the warheads of the ballistic missiles (300kt vs 100kt, apparently), with the ASMPA being made for high altitude (500km range), low altitude (80km range) and anti-ship (50km range, I guess low altitude launch). To take with a grain of salt, these are Wikipedia’s rough estimations.
So yeah, their first strike policy would probably be on some sea based target, where you don’t even need to aim precisely to destroy it, limiting civilian casualties, and hurting the enemies capabilities.
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If you compare like for like F-16C vs F-16 OCU then that does become a notable factor.
Also for rapid acquistion, it helps a lot.
Also a pod without thermals may also have less zoom which also doesnt help. No idea what the ATLIS II pod is like, but I would guess overall weaker than say the Litening II or III in terms of zoom as well as lack of thermal.
It is an SPAA, the rest is a question of balance.
The snail will do as it wants
I still shudder at thought of the 2S38 being so under BRed and costing so much less SP than many of its contempories if it did change to being an SPAA. Especially being spammed like it is as a premium
THAAD :)
Spoiler
This is sentence
I wouldn’t lower the cost at it’s current BR, it’s far too effective. As a high-BR SPAA it would still be effective against air targets while less so against ground targets.
Yep, if it was more like 11.3 then it could be re-classed as an SPAA
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12 AIM-120s that fall short of Meteor/PL-15/R-37 isn’t exactly what you’re going to want. It’ll be like 12 R-77s compared to AIM-120As, except range disparity will be even worse.
Monster radar, yes that’s true. However it’s also a “hey, I’m over here” signal. Something like the Rafale is capable of firing missiles at target stealthily using RWR or IRST/TV while having the radar shut off. As far as advanced ECM suite, I can find no information about that but meanwhile Rafale is confirmed to have 360 degree AESA antenna jammers, while also being significantly reduced in RCS.
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They’ll be replaced by AIM-260 pretty soon probably.
And as for the radar, they have LPI tech. It’s newer than even the APG-81 after all.
The EPAWSS suite can also geolocate targets, and EX uses the Legion pod which is probably better than the IRST on the Rafale.
Now, I don’t think there are any sources for the specifics of the system like that, it is brand new (from 2022 iirc) after all. But consider that it is newer than the F-35’s on a much larger aircraft that is also more valuable.
RCS is probably improved over a typical F-15 due to new-build advanced eagles like the EX having composite in them. Still probably wouldn’t be a big enough difference to matter that much though
Since we’re on the topic, here’s a list of top tier CAS options for each nation, including CAP:
USA
- F-15E
- F-16C
- AV-8B+
- AH-64D
- AH-1Z
- F-15C (honorable mention as CAP/anti-CAS)
Germany
- EF-2000
- Tiger UHT
- Tornado IDS (??? - literally their highest BR attacker)
Russia
- Su-34
- Su-27SM
- MiG-29SMT
- Su-25SM3
- Ka-52
- Mi-28NM
Britain
- Typhoon FGR.4
- JAS39C (SAAF)
- Harrier GR.7
- Tornado GR.4
- AH Mk.1 Apache
- Rooivalk
Japan
- JAS39C (Thailand)
- F-16A OCU (Thailand)
- F-15J(M) (honorable mention as CAP/anti-CAS)
- AH-64DJP
China
- F-16A MLU
- JH-7A
- J-10A (honorable mention as CAP/anti-CAS)
- J-11A (honorable mention as CAP/anti-CAS)
- Z-10
Italy
- EF-2000A
- AV-8B+
- JAS39C (Hungary)
- AH-129D
France
- Rafale C F3-R
- Mirage 2000D-RMV
- F-16AM (Belgium/Netherlands)
- Tiger HAD Block 2
- AH-64D (Netherlands)
Sweden
- JAS39C
- AJS37 (??? - literally their highest BR attacker)
- AHS (~AH-64A)
Israel
- F-15I Ra’am
- F-16D Barak II
- F-16C Barak II
- F-15C Baz Meshupar (honorable mention as CAP/anti-CAS)
- AH-64D-I Saraph
- AH-60
I would suggest adding the Kfir C.10 to the list since it has 2 LGBs and a Lightening 3 TGP, but they still haven’t given it SPICE bombs or the extra 2 LGBs (potentially even more) it’s missing.
AH-1Z (can’t bear to see my favorite attack helicopter misspelled lol)
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LPI tech isn’t a get out of jail free card, you’ll still be detected, just at a lower range than typically.
There’s no confirmation that EPAWSS suite can triangulate and send information to the firing control system. Legion pod still does not have laser rangefinder and the manufacturer has confirmed it requires two legion pods to triangulate and provide fire control.
The problem still exists however that it will not have sensor fusion, atleast not to the levels of F-35 and Rafale. F-35 and Rafale can shut off their radar, and use the IRST/TV sensor which contains laser rangefinder and fire missiles that way. They also both can triangulate RWR signals and provide information directly to the firing control system.
Increased usage of composites is something you can disregard when it comes to RCS reduction, other measures matter far more, not that increasing composite composition isn’t important overall to reducing weight of the aircraft, but it is not by far the biggest signature reduction methods.
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You forgot the Tornado for germany as its highest BR CAS jet btw.
Also the AJS imo is the 2nd best first goes to the F-5(A)-40 (though event only) its a very good multirole