thats… a tank, an SPAA and two vague maybes for the future. that’s not a lineup. Might aswell play the C2A1 with a CL-13 then.
ok so let’s talk about the Ariete and Challenger 2 Black Night
The AMV has the best mobility of the 2… not by as much as you think-
A spaded Ariete AMV will reach its top speed of 65km in around 20 seconds on flat solid concrete
A spaded Black Night reaches its top speed of 59kmh in 24 seconds
A spaded 2E will reach its top speed of 72kmh in 26 seconds, but reaches the AMVs top speed of 65 in 21 seconds
The speed gap between these vehicles is tiny… the Ariete simply has better initial acceleration but falls off in comparison to other MBTs due to its low top speed.
Gun handling wise the AMV is the best no question, same with firepower wise as it utilizes DM53 as opposed to the woefully tragic L27A1.
aaaand that’s where the Ariete’s good news ends.
the tank has the single most exposed ammo rack in the game (the 22 round first stage being tucked just behind it)
There is NO ARMOR to protect it, (9.3 MBTs can go through this tanks upper front plate and 10.0s can go through it’s turret cheeks), and this tank has 2 spall liners. (1 behind each turret cheek) which don’t really help with crew survivability because the armor is so thin to begin with the shell barely loses power when going through it.
In contrast the Challenger 2s UFP and Turret Cheeks are resistant up to 11.3 (and some 11.7) darts, the LFP and Gun Mantlet are equally massive on both tanks (but that doesn’t matter on the Ariete because you can literally shoot it anywhere)
and while the Challenger 2 has a lot of charges in the hull, because of gaijins brilliant programing even after the changes. Charges still have a low detonation chance when hit, ammo is the main thing that detonates reliably and the CR2s ammo is at the back of the turret hiding behind actual turret armor and a spall liner. Speaking of a spall liner the CR2 also has a UFP spall liner which helps its survivability from hull shots at times.
FURTHERMORE the 2E just has better overall mobility than the AMV while the Black Night has iron fist which is still the best APS in the game.
The AMV is “better” in the case of firepower and mobility (not by much on that 2nd front) but those factors start to matter less and less if you can’t even survive being looked in your direction-
The reload buff for the Arietes was done as a weak stop gap measure to warrant uptiering them, because the alternative is gaijin admitting those tanks are where they shouldn’t be. But when 11.3 MBTs like the Type 90s and M1A1 compare favorably against the 12.0 AMV (let alone the 11.7 WAR and PSO) those tanks are easily the worst MBTs at their respective BRs.
All this being said, I still prefer Italy to Britain, but that’s purely to do with the 2A7HU and their IFVs. Were it not for those 2 things, Italy would be the worst nation in the game.
1 Like
I personally don’t think China needs a sub tree at all, given they have enough funky wheeled stuff to make an entire line all on its own. If they needed a subtree I would have picked Pakistan for a less controversial option will equipment actually related to China.
4 Likes
again we have tried and tried to get light tanks, it took gaijin 5 YEARS to introduce the desert warrior since the regular warrior was added, we still dont have the stormer 30 that uses the exact same turret as the VCC80-30 that italy got years ago just on a stormer hull, I doubt gaijin will ever put the effort in to model the Ajax if it took them this long to make an IFV that uses more then 50% of the same model as the base warrior and still haven’t added another IFV that has the hull and turret already here in game.
1 Like
I come back, and we’re already at 1000+ replies on this topic, then I see why…
Like, in all honesty, why does Gaijin think adding Singapore of all nations to China is even a remotely good idea? And an even better question: why do they feel the need to add a Leopard 2A4 of all things? For example, if you want a decent-ish squadron vehicle, how about the VT-5? Or there’s even the 85M-II with the GL5 APS and a number of other vehicles that would work even better than a base Leopard 2A4.
As for Sub-TTs, first off, does China even need a Sub-TT at the moment? Considering the scores of unimplemented Chinese tanks, there’s enough to keep China competitive for quite a while. Plus, there’s a multitude of other nations that could be added as Sub TTs. Overall, it just seems like Gaijin is trying to shoehorn in a Sub-TT for a nation that doesn’t need it at the moment. Just my two cents
6 Likes
CR2s are better than the Arietes, though the 4 round ready rack is an insane nerf that needs to removed.
It the CR3TD that is worse than the Ariete though.
that’s honestly the wildest thing, gave that to the Arietes AND Merk 4s just to keep them at the top BR somehow, yet the CR3TD didn’t get it and is now an 11.7 thats coming at the end of the line after two 12.0s. Stupid double standards like always.
the 3TD is worse than the AMV only because of the fact gaijin chose not to just buff it’s reload (I still have no idea why they did this btw). Were that change made, it’d be better (not by much mind you)
But at the same time they left it at 11.7 (for some reason) which means it doesn’t even get compared to the AMV, it gets compared to the WAR and PSO which are absolute meme tanks since they don’t even have the AMVs mobility going for them
Edit: I really don’t know why they didn’t just uptier the 3TD and give it a 5 second reload like they did for all 3 merkava IVs and the 3 Arietes)
Edit 2: Like it’s baffling because the 3TD comes after 2 12.0s… we’re not gonna use it at 11.7, we already have 3 tech tree 11.7 MBTs we don’t need a 4th… we’d rather this one be useful at 12.0
2 Likes
you aren’t always going top speed in War Thunder, low speed mobility is just as important.
That ammo is exclusively APFSDS, which doesn’t explode. The HESH charges are stowed in the hull, directly under the gun and around the driver.
Generally agree with the rest though.
while I get the complaints, I still would rather have the better gun and mobility (excluding a single challenger variant) and like you said italy has a 2A7 and some of the best IFVs in the game
Yep, this is what im saying, its kinda insane
Also the CR2 BN has this lovely little “gimmick” (the actual video is way longer, this happens 4 times in the span of 25 seconds)
And that subtree being shoehorned has been directly removed from development for another nation according to the same source the China leak is from. This behavior from Gaijin is at best not thought through and at worst intentionally harmful.
China has many options, domestic as well as other subtrees, they do not need to take away from others.
I’m sure unless there is something shady going on behind the scenes Gaijin will notice their mistake and adjust it. And if something else is behind it, Gaijin can still rethink it and decide to not send the game down such a dark path.
11 Likes
Just give Britain this:
And we’ll just take a rover with a milan at top tier instead of any MBTs :P
2 Likes
you need a range of over 1700m im pretty sure for the dart to slow down enough for the APS to intercept it, its cool but only works if you are sniping
what dart were you using?
because its also dependent on how fast the dart you are using is
KE-W from the 2A4M
yeah that would be why its only 1585m/s the iron fist can intercept projectiles at 1700m/s (given enough range)
DM53 from an L44 for example has 1670m/s which if with in a 1km normally doesnt have the reaction time to shoot down
1 Like