Major Update "Firebirds" - Rumor Round-Up & Discussion (Part 2)

I’m not even going to reply to all the slander about the Su-57. It’s not a perfect plane, nor is the F-22, EFT, and especially not the F-35 lmao. But to think that it’s the equivalent of an aluminum-foil-ducktape-balsa-wood-model with two R-5 rockets for engines and a TV-tube radar with a single channel and bottle rockets for missiles is basically how you all sound describing it.

No, it doesn’t have the RCS of a bus. Yes, from most angles, it has a higher RCS than any other Gen 5 fighter. Yes, it’s larger dimensionally and heavier too. If it was meant to be a Western fighter, it would be hot trash.

It’s not. It’s meant to be a Russian fighter. It functions differently within the RUAF’s doctrine as a fighter. It has unique capabilities that Western fighters still struggle to match such as integrated weapons networks, IRST acquisition abilities, integrated EW complexes that are unparalleled by the West (and yes, I’m talking about what’s in the plane, not ground based stations for which the West has zero analogue) to name some of the most prominent.

We’re on the English forum, it’s easy to dunk on the perceived Russian bias that so many of you won’t explicitly just say because it will get your comments deleted.

War Thunder is not a simulation game, even when you play Sim mode (looking at you @Morvran ;) ), it’s a semi-realistic (mostly) third-person vehicle combat game. Games are supposed to be fun. The devs are doing their best to create a balanced product that engages the maximum amount of people possible for the economic benefit of the company.

If War Thunder was a bit more realistic, just speaking from some cursory knowledge of Russian equipment here, but GPS jamming would compromise the guidance of most weapons on the map, it wouldn’t prevent utilization of course, just reduce it. Theatre level AD would keep most F-15’s and other high fliers present in the current form of top-tier from sitting up high and SPAMRAAMING like they have. Staying within the proper envelopes, Su-57’s and MiG-31’s would coordinate to engage with ultra-long-range missiles such as the R-37 and R-37M, targeting AWACS and anyone else remaining at specific elevations. Merges would occur for anything that escapes the canopies of MRAD and SHORAD, at which Fox-3’s would become basically fatal for everyone.

But that’s a lot of detail, and a lot extra “stuff” to model in, and frankly makes the game not “fun”. If you like true BVR jousting, you should try DCS. Instead, the devs try to create competitive models of these planes so that they maintain some semblance of character to their actual models, while still being balanced and fun.

Is the game ever done being balanced? No. Balance is constant. Anyone playing this game knows that. If you think the Su-57 will have unrealistic characteristics because of biased devs or unreliable sourcing or “Russian propaganda” you’re missing the picture. If you recognize the Su-57 will be embellished to some degree to create a more fun and balanced experience for everybody, then you’re picking up what the intention of the devs are.

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How about we settle on this: we have absolutely no information of any kind that is reliable or credible that says anything about the actual RCS of fifth gen fighters.

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Stealth isn’t just RCS, it’s also geometric and material science. It’s not just absorbing rays, it’s deflecting them. It’s not just returning a smaller signature, it’s returning a confusing signature that takes longer to identify.

Russia doesn’t use stealth the way the West does. Stealth is also a meme to a degree.

This is because all things, including the F-22 are visible on radar. To what extent? That’s entirely variable. At higher outputs and broader frequencies, you can find almost anything.

I’d agree, but I’d pushback that we have faithful models with decent fidelity, and we can reasonably approximate RCS values from this, and that yes, the Su-57 has the worst RCS value of any fifth-gen fighter. We don’t have an exact knowledge. Not even the governments of Russia, China, or the West do.

But it certainly has helped doing DEAD missions well within range of Western ELINT assets and AD systems deployed, and has yet to lose a single aircraft to enemy fire.

My wager is they are overhauling how they do the event. F-117 would be perfect for the event, yet its becoming a squadron vehicle according to the leaks. I think they’re making it so that what previously would’ve been the big ticket vehicle is now the squadron vehicle to avoid what happened to the Sturmtiger where players can no longer get it, and then have the event vehicle be an interesting prototype.

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There’s no direct RCS value defining stealth btw as stealth is just a concept of lowered observability in many many aspects. As it stands anything using stealth technology or having stealth features can be considered stealth.

Pointless discussion tbh

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This is a good way of putting it.

Sidebar: The Su-57 is taking a page out of the F-22’s book. New Su-57’s will no longer have 3D TVC as the 2D TVC produces a much better IR signature. (And radar too apparently)

To be frank I very much doubt this, especially with how corruption-ridden the Russian military is, and their tendancy to… overstate, shall we say, their capabilities. The west tends to understate their capabilities, especially with their newer aircraft.

Russian aircraft, if modeled correctly, would likely be far behind their western counterparts in almost every way. Hell- do you really expect a nation operating T-54s and T-55s to be able to field a modern stealth aircraft, let alone one able to compete with the F-22 and F-35?

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True…

Please keep in mind that this is the RnR thread. It’s ok to discuss about stealth in the future as a remote possibility (your opinions, not mine), but it is not ok to go off-topic and enter these detailed discussions about specific aircraft and their use. I believe there are already other threads up for it and more can be created if needed.

Some posts also had to be taken down for… obvious reasons. Please let’s avoid topics that are clearly against the guidelines of the forums.

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Ahh, sorry about that. Likely should have thought before posting, wont happen again :>

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2 ground vehicles events back 2 back? I doubt it

Dream comes true event isnt in that event cycle so cant be counted 2 ground tanks back to back. so id really expect a tank this time with dreams comes true event

Did the last Dreams Come True event (TOG II) fit into the current event schedule?

(We didnt have these events then)

The victory day one was moved about so that it didnt have to be a ship, I suppose they could do the same with DCT event.

That was before the new event cycle was established.

It’s an intriguing idea, but why won’t Gaijin do this for Ariete MBT?

I wish they did :-/

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Yeah, or like how they made it so that all RWRs could detect all radars as the SPO-10 users were struggling vs PD radars but they never made it so that all RWRs could detect the Pantsir…

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