M4A2 Sherman "Meir", the 20mm sherman

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I would like to make a quite interesting suggestion for Israel. the M4A2 Meir

The M4a2 Meir was the first Israeli Sherman to ever see services. bought from a bride to the British soldiers, this tank was not what it looked like in the photo. the tank wasn’t always armed with a 75mm even if it looked just like any other Sherman.
the tank was in the British services during WW2 but in 1947 it was stored in Haifa waiting to either be transported to the UK or be destroyed as the British were withdrawing from Palestine. the way the tank was to be destroyed was simple, they brought it to a mountain and just threw it down a cliff where it would be too damaged to be repaired. but this is not what happened with this M4a2 (called Sherman III in the UK). The Haganah militia who later became the IDF bribed the British personnel who were ordered to destroy the tank for £2,000 and had the tank in their service. only it was just an empty shell, the tank was not in working condition at all. the gun was removed, the sighting equipment missing, the engine was not working and even the track was missing. still, the tank was not lost. the Haganah transported the tank to Tel Aviv where the British had set up a repair faculty for the armor vehicles and left it with most of the needed equipment. but the part was not found there. it was just scavenged here and there and it took a lot of effort to just get the engine running. the track was found buried in the sand and was probably the original track for this tank (as the British who sold it didn’t want them to have a tank) but there was a major part that was missing, the tank still had no gun.

Desmond Rutledge, a tank driver of the 82nd Tank Battalion, with his wife Miriam sitting on the Meir

the tank was used for a while without a gun for training purposes but the need for a gun was clear otherwise the tank was just a large and heavily protected armored personal carrier who couldn’t care much about people. the solution was to fit a 20mm Hispano gun from the gunnery training field. the 20mm auto-cannon was fitted inside the 75mm tube which made the modification almost invisible. this tank was renamed “Meir” after the girlfriend of one of the crewmembers.
this tank saw services in 1948 during the Israeli-Arab war which led to the Israeli independence. it was used along with Cromwell who was also obtained by the bride and the help of a defective British soldier. still without the proper gun at that time. it was damaged in the battle of El Arish in 1948 where it was sabotaged so that the enemy did not take it. the first and probably most interesting Sherman that the IDF ever had was them lost.

the armament of this tank is not common for a Sherman. I believe it’s the smallest caliber from any Sherman as the main gun. the armament is a 20mm Hispano-Suiza. the model is not specified but the HS.404 and HS.804 are the only possible gun available that could match the description. those are a good thing as the gun is quite decent against tanks. it offers more punch than the usual 20mm of his time. with a penetration of 45-40mm at combat distance, it may be capable of penetrating most enemy tanks even at the front if it can aim at a specific place. the magazine includes 30 or 60 rounds in a drum depending on the user’s choice. I believe the 30-round drum would be a better choice for this tank as the reload would be much faster and easier in this crowded turret. this is more than enough to be effective. for the rest of the tank, the armament seems to be missing. the 20mm might be the only armament it had, but at the same time, when you have an auto-cannon this powerful, you do not need a coaxial. the ammunition carried is unknown. I will just let Gaijin fill the tank with a pile of drum magazines where the 75mm should be inside the tank. I am sure it would be more than enough to have fun. I would not be surprised if the tank could carry more than 30 drums of 30 rounds which makes 900 rounds.

the mobility is what we can expect from any Sherman. it is pretty average. neither too fast or too slow. but sometimes feeling sluggish. the tank weight will not be much changed from the normal M4a2 which means about 31.3 tons and a 410 hp engine for a power-weight of 12.62. it can reach 48 km/h but will quickly slow down when turning as it lacks power steering.

This tank protection is unchanged from the usual M4A2 Sherman. As the gun may lead it to a lower Battle Rating, it might make this tank feel well protected on the battlefield as the enemy may have weaker armament. it offers decent protection and survivability over the other tanks. but over the other Israeli Sherman, it is one of the only ones that does not have additional smoke. the crew of 5 men will be quite decent as well to survive.


Tanks of the Early IDF, Written by Tom Gannon



IDF archive




This is an interesting suggestion, the only questionable part is what br would it be

maybe at 2.7 inline with the M4a3 (105) or a bit more

the gun is still effective even at this BR. it have quit a decent pen for an auto-cannon. it can deal with most tanks even on the front

but too low it would become too armoured.

i believe it would be good as premium


Well i would say 2.0-2.3, it has enough pen to deal with light tanks and open tops, it has enough pen to go through the sides of most other tanks. Its armor is great so you would be able to weather most damage.

way too low. at this BR most tanks will be unable to penetrate it while it will be capable to just kill anything it meets. only 2-3 tanks in that BR range will be decently protected against it.

it’s a mistake to underestimate the auto-cannon. the R3 T20, PT-76-57 and the fox are mistake to learn from. if you put it at 2.3 it will be plaguing the game

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40-45 mm of penetration is really not all that good, at distance you would struggle against most medium tanks, and in uptiers it would struggle against early t-34s, shermans, and long barrel panzer ivs


This is an issue of compression, the German and Russian player are not good with their tanks. they want something to sit in the middle of the battle and survive shots on all sides without caring about taking cover. the Sherman has way too good survivability to be below 2.7. i even feel like the M4a3 (105) is too low. i deal with half the enemy with the 12.7mm alone. just figure out if i got 15mm more pen with it

but this, only adding it to the game will prove the performance, i am 100% sure at a BR lower than 2.7 it would just break the balance. there are plenty of vehicles at 1.7 already who will have a hard time penetrating it with their 37mm and 47mm will have difficulty penetrating it. just see the M15/42 or the Ho-I. the only ones who can safely penetrate it are the German and Russian who are genuinely underrated.


This seems really dam cool.

It is an very interesting vehicle. I just wish there were more pictures of the gun :/

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most of the time the gun was covered and only the muzzle’s hole showed it was different. but there is a handful more pictures of this tank. only there is no real difference from a regular M4A2 outside the gun. so i didn’t post them all. one picture of the barrel is enough to figure out how it was fitted and why the picture do not show much difference from the normal gun.

there are also some reports more or less reliable that say the tank was refitted with a normal 75mm not very long before it was lost. but there is no hard proof of it. while there is hard proof that a 20mm was fitted in the tank as shown in the sources. in any case, if they add it, it would be better to add as it was with the 20mm otherwise it would just be another copy-paste of a regular Sherman.

I highly doupt your 880m/s 0,168g Ap round with 40-45mm pen. Doesnt the american AN/M2 use the same ammo? Its below 800m/s for that heavy round, the 880m/s is for the 130g rounds.
The AN/M2 has a shorter barrle, so the 130g He round is “only” 868m/s, but the 168g Ap-T round will never reach anywere close 880m/s

the barrel length is very important for the rounds’ velocity.

in this case, this a L/85 which is much better than the L/70 of the HS 804 and has a velocity ranging from 800 to 830 m/sec i do not know which is the length of the barrel of the AN/M2 exactly

the rounds are normally compatible one with another but it’s also not uncommon for variants coming out of a license to build a gun is modified to accommodate a different cartridge. and at last, the projectile also differs from one country to another. here i put the French data which was verified serial times and confirmed by the Israeli who used those guns until the 70s or 80s

i got a book coming up next week (or i hope to have it next week) which will clarified the difference between the auto-cannons

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As far as i know there are 2x M95 Ap-T rounds one of 168g and a 130g round.
But the 168g round will never reach the same velocity of 880m/s of the 130g round.

for the kinetic energy, the velocity is more important than the weight. and they probably never used the air-force’s rounds

It just looks funny.
Imagine making a model kit, but with the gun being a solid cylinder. So you have to make make your own barrel hole. But you mess up the size, and got a smaller hole instead. lol

+1, I’d love to see this somewhere at 2.3-3.0.

Skink but just god awful.

Wait is that an M4A1 turret???

it’s an M4A2 which is basically the same

it did receive modification, the gun is a dummy hiding a 20mm inside

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Does it have the horizotal turret drive weakspot?