M41A1 turret traverse

Machinery of War Discussion Ground Vehicle
1

Currently the M41A1’s turret traverse is 24º/s, instead of the 36º/s it used to be, which is a value that is usually quoted to be the turret traverse of the M41A1.

The reason for this is this exact bug report: M41A1 incorrect turret rotation speed - Documented Ground Reports - War Thunder - Official Forum

In it, the technical manual of the M41 and M41A1 from July 1958 is used to say that the turret traverse of the M41A1 is wrong and should be 24º/s. Specifically, this page of the TM is pulled up.

Image provided in the bug report

Specifications~
Math provided on the forum post says that 360/15 is 24, therefore the turret traverse is 24º/s.

Among all the complaints that have existed about this specific report, there is one that has gone completely unnoticed and is probably the biggest issue of them all: the specifications provided specifically state the “Maximum time required to traverse 360 degrees”.

Why is this a problem? Well, it is a problem because had it said “minimum time”, it would mean that that would be the fastest possible powered turret traverse time. However, because it is maximum time, it actually means the exact opposite: 24º/s is the slowest possible powered turret traverse on these tanks. With that in mind, this report becomes completely faulty. There is not a single bit of information given on the actual maximum powered traverse, simply the minimum powered traverse.

What I find most ridiculous of all is that the same user that has made the bug report on the M41A1 also made bug reports on the M26 and M4A3 (76), leading to both turret traverses being nerfed from 24º/s to 21º/s. With their examples, their respective TMs specified minimum time, and said user made a point to show this, stating that this is indeed the maximum turret traverse that these tanks can do.

Response about M4A3 (76) and M26 turret traverse

Captura de ecrã 2023-08-17 202106
Captura de ecrã 2023-08-17 2021061810×420 75.6 KB

But then on the M41, which has a specification sheet that specifically called for maximum time instead of minimum, dead silence. The same user that had paid so much attention to the fact that the M4A3 and M26 TMs said “minimum time”, now suddenly ignores when a TM says “maximum time”.

Makes me feel like some people just want to watch the world burn.

11 Likes
2

I wonder why

4 Likes
3

I’m guessing they are going with the number they have. It doesn’t matter if it’s maximum or minimum.

4

there are 36 numbers ,
he is just bunking the report

5

The only reason it got changed in the first place is because of the bug report.

Gaijin already had a value to go by, which was 36º/s. This bug report shows up, saying that 36º/s is wrong and 24º/s is right, when actually the stuff stated on the bug report doesn’t even say that 36º/s is wrong, the specifications actually say that at the very least it is 24º/s.

It’s all so stupid.

4 Likes
7

Yeah, imagine if the Panther A suddenly had a bug report where someone stated “20º/s is wrong, (*insert some random value, idk, like 10º/s) is correct” only for the bug report to actually say that the minimum turret traverse is those 10º/s.

3 Likes
8

Ironically enough, that’s almost how it should be. The turret traverse was driven by engine speed. It was only 20*/s at maximum engine RPM, yet some how they get it permanently.

9

Why is it that “Germans bias” always gets brought up in these US post?

1 Like
11

Or like how the US gets several premium(undertiered) jets or how the F-5C gets to have its CMs while other historical changes are ignored.

I don’t like pretending the US is some ignored and abused nation.

1 Like
12

And German F4s getting missiles they never mounted isn’t the same thing? Pointing out issues in the game doesn’t mean there aren’t other issues.

13

I made a bug report using the same source.

@MiseryIndex556
Not sure why people are so anti-missile for the F-4F.

14

I don’t care either way. It’s just funny how the F5 getting flares is treated like some game breaking injustice but it’s rather minor compared to other ahistorical decisions.

15

Nerfing them instead of getting the AIM-9L is a little different.

You’re not pointing out issues, your claiming snailsoft loves Germany over the US for some reason.

1 Like
16

You can take it how ever you want.

17

Thank you for pointing out the issue, I’ve passed it to devs to revoke the change. If you have further reference indicating 36 degree/sec traverse speed then please send it to me. It’ll help resolving the issue.

9 Likes
18

I provided an active bug report.
All I asked with mine is minimum brought up from 16.8 to 24, which would have an ace-crew effect of ~34.2 per second.

https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/EVo5okQdw7mS

1 Like
19

I will take it as written.

Also, seems like some quick action on the report.

20

Abrams_X is simply stating that he has contacted the developers and will try to rectify the issue that came from the bug report he made, which I and (I’d like to believe) everyone else appreciates.

However that does not mean that the developers have taken any action at all, and they might not take any action for a good while. In fact, the developers can make the equally likely decision to not revert the change and keep the M41A1 as is with its 24º/s turret traverse instead of 36º/s.

I also want to point out that this is something that affects the American, German, Japanese and possibly even the Chinese M41. Making this purely about the US M41 is a bit pointless (although I have to concede it is a bit on me as well, as I specifically tagged this post “usa”).

2 Likes
21

In fact, there’s a reason I said this:

There were quite a few complaints made. One of them came from Spookston, the content creator. He provided Smin1080p a bunch of documents pertaining to the M41, specifically the M41A1/T41E2, that talked a lot about improvements to the turret traverse and how it had been designed to meet a “5 second engagement time requirement”. What this basically means is that even if a target was on the complete opposite way of where the turret was facing, the T41E2 had a turret traverse fast enough to turn those 180º in 5 seconds (in other words, 36º/s).

Spookston messages

1281×702 334 KB

However, even with this, the developer response, received via Smin1080p, was the following (this is a transcript from the Discord messages):

Response

Particularly important part highlighted in yellow.

So yes, I do believe that it is entirely possible that the developers might not revert the change whatsoever.

3 Likes
22

I just wanna say, my only issue was the how fast German bias got brought up in a thread trying to get the walker Texas bulldog(M41) fixed.

Like, why? Why bring it up?