Ah yes, HSTVL, also known as “The Whistler”. I stopped playing it because its engine sound was starting to give me tinnitus.
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What do you mean? Abrams and HSTV-L engines clearly have a noise suppression system modeled in game meaning no player can hear it other than the player playing it /s
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A tank shouldn’t get killed by an SPAA, but getting penned from the front from one is a serious issue that must be fixed.
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Exactly, that’s the point.
Abrams IS capable and CAN do well.
The difference is that you need to play it perfectly in order to exploit its strengths and overcome its weaknesses, while tanks like the 2A7s or the 122s have even more and stronger strengths and no weaknesses at all, and can be played like a headless chicken AND still do well in it.
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Using the best tanks in the game as an arguement is stupid
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Somehow the mighty Soviet engine is unhearable, i guess sound proofs are built around the engine.
Don’t leave without saying LONG LIVE THE MOTHERLAND COMRADE!!!
Challenger 1 Mk.2 and 3 have essentially the same “unrivalled hull down” performance, yet, do you see people claiming that they’re fantastic tanks on their own?
They don’t though, they’re much worse in the role compared to the 120S and in the case of the Mk3 at a higher BR than it.
Because that’s how it literally is? A vehicle that has to rely on a specific strat & only play that way can’t be considered “excellent” or “fantastic”.
Says who?
Only a few vehicles can really do any damage to either of the 3 when they’re hull down (if we, of course, ignore their mantlets), but I don’t see people saying Mk.3 is better than the basic M1 or the 2A4.
The mk3 is 10.3 not 10.0 and worse than the 120S is most respects aside from about 4hp/t extra and better hull armour on the UFP.
I can hold a chokepoint with a Leopard 1A1A1 at 10.0
And? You will also be far less effective than a 120S in a hull down position. You’re pretending like everything in a hull down position boils down to waiting for someone to drive around a corner etc but a lot of hull down fighting is two tanks at opposing sides of the map taking shots at each other and jockeying in cover.
The 120S will handily outperform almost all enemies it faces in hull down because of it’s rate of fire, gen 2 thermals, good armour and great turret handling and blowout panels.
There’s nothing fantastic about a vehicle that has to depend on its player actually having a brain.
So the barrier for a vehicle being great or not is now based on the skill floor? This is such an absurd argument.
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I don’t even remember why I followed this thread in the first place. It isn’t going anywhere, people are just saying the same stuff over and over, and people can’t cope with the fact that someone disagrees with them.
From what I have gathered: The Abrams is the worst tank from the big 3, but it is better than what Israel, France, and other nations have to offer. The Abrams turret ring is a very large weakspot ingame, which heavily decreases its viability (although this could be solved if Gaijin forced a camera from the tank gunners sight). The matchmaking and poor player quality harm America’s winrate at top tier.
The disparity between the top nations (Sweden, Germany, and maybe Russia) is too much compared to what other nations have, which is just a compression issue.
TLDR: Force camera from gunner sight, uptier the top MBTs, stop selling top tier premiums.
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The point is, there should be no such enormous capability discrepancies betweeen tanks of the same BR; specially when many of these discrepancies are generated by artificial nerfs, mismodelling and poor choice of direct counterparts.
And before you bring up that other tanks have it even worse than the Abrams; it is not mutually exclusive. I have addressed the issues of every single tank in the game, so let’s not make a “(X) has it worse” competition.
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Actually, the skill floor kinda shows how good a vehicle is. If you stomp the playerbase using a tank on your first like, 3 matches… What does that say?
I can agree with this for the most part.
If you stomp the playerbase using a tank on your first like, 3 matches… What does that say?
Well if I were to use you and the other regular US mains arguments in this thread and others it wouldn’t say anything since your handful have said that for example, 15 games is not sufficient to be able to comment on a vehicle.
So it says nothing by your own argumentation.
Actually, the skill floor kinda shows how good a vehicle is.
Actually, it doesn’t. The skill floor for a vehicle can be great but the skill ceiling can be low. It’s the reason why in many games good players are able to perform great and be at the top tier of competitive sports with things that an average player would not be capable of using effectively.
Just look at mobas for example.
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I love the Abrams and i want it to get fixed, the hull didn’t get improvements at all since the first M1, and the turret ring issue is absurd.
NOOOO FRANCE AND ISRAEL HAVE MUCH WORSE TANKS, YOU CANT GET YOUR TANK FIXED AND NOT THEM (somehow they do not complain about these tanks being bad at all or put some efforts contacting CMs)
I’ve not seen them complain about Italy being bad after the Hungarian 2A7 got added, now its France and Israel, this forum is just sad.
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but I did read the post.
what is it with people caring about what posts i like? will you be satisfied if I like your posts?
Somehow you agree with the guy 100% in everything.
its hard to disagree with common sense
@Selasco
You responded to the wrong post.
I’m one of the many demanding fixes for tanks with issues.
I want inaccuracies to be fixed!
I want the Abrams to have DU hull and Spall Liners
Pick one.
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My guy, their gun depression (and especially Mk3.s) and firepower is more than enough for pretty much anything at 10.0 - 10.3, their turret armour is also potent enough to stop most APFSDS (3BM-42 included). You can go ahead and pick an outlier like the 2S25M with its 3BM-60, but that one also very easily perforates 120S turret…
Says who?
Oh gee, maybe people who’ve played actually excellent vehicles and deemed them so? I wonder why you’re the only person here with an opinion that the 120S is “excellent”…
The mk3 is 10.3 not 10.0 and worse than the 120S is most respects aside from about 4hp/t extra and better hull armour on the UFP.
So now you need gun-handling & 2nd generation thermals to do well hull-down? Extra 4hp/t is an incredibly huge advantage as well.
And? You will also be far less effective than a 120S in a hull down position. You’re pretending like everything in a hull down position boils down to waiting for someone to drive around a corner etc but a lot of hull down fighting is two tanks at opposing sides of the map taking shots at each other and jockeying in cover.
Most of the time you are waiting for somebody to drive around a corner, yes. But even in instances where you are not, chances are you’re far away to be a small enough target that your turret armour becomes irrelevant because well, guess again, you have an advantage of position. If you’re close enough that your turret becomes easily visible… uh, they’re just gonna shoot your mantlet?
However yes, “hull-down fighting” (so maybe you should stop pretending like that’s all hull-down fighting is about, kay?) also includes long range duels as well, and there indeed the 120S has an advantage over many of its peers, but it’s also pretty much the only time it actually has any sort of real advantage over other vehicles, so in reality all it tells us is that it needs to be a range to be effective, but once the distance closes or we’re fighting on a flatter map, it become an AFV that’s no better than a Leopard 1A5 in a cat fight (so basically all the city maps).
THAT’S THE POINT YOU’VE BEEN MISSING. 120S can only fight effectively when it duels other vehicles at long range from an advantegous position. It’s a one trick pony.
So the barrier for a vehicle being great or not is now based on the skill floor? This is such an absurd argument.
It has always been this way? Not sure when you’ve “joined the family”, but how good a vehicle is, is usually judged by how much skill input it needs to be used effectively. Less input → better; more input → worse. Never thought why Strv 122s/BVM have been praised all the way to the heavens but not the Merkavas?
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