M1A2 SEP V2 doesnt have better LFP armour

[_Renzo]

@FurinaBestArchon

You’re seriously bringing up skill to this? Right, you’ve got an issue with aiming if you can’t kill a 2A7V I guess. If i can do it with OFL 120 G1, why’s that a problem for you with M829A2?

Lmao you are seriously comparing the 2A7V with decent armor to an MBT of which you can lolpen 70% of the frontal arc and one tap it there too? This has to be the most Leopard main thing I have read in a while.

@FurinaBestArchon

You mean just like 2A7V is hauling 4+ tons of weight over the 2A6, while bringing only thermals as an actual upgrade? Because at the moment it’s trading the upper plate protection for beak protection, but also has far more weakpoints due to the new model being fresh and unfinished compared to a 2A6, not even worth mentioning the 122s.

Again don’t tell me you are not saying that UFP add on armor of the 2A7V is of a similar usefullness as freaking TUSK II. Please lol.

@FurinaBestArchon

Yea sure buddy.

• better acceleration
• better top speed
• better reverse
• actually less weakpoints overall
• better all around protection

Noo way brooo, every aspect??

Any stats to back it up? I’ll give you the top speed and reverse being slightly better. But you seriously seem to think TUSK II does anything lmao?

And LESS WEAKSPOTS?? Brother 70% of the SEPv2s frontal arc is a weakspot.

You are just saying shit to make your Leopard 2s seem worse than they are in game.

[Jεcka]

@_Renzo

Lmao you are seriously comparing the 2A7V with decent armor to an MBT of which you can lolpen 70% of the frontal arc and one tap it there too? This has to be the most Leopard main thing I have read in a while.

Sure buddy. Not like the entire upper plate of the Abrams is an auto ricochet - “70%” tho.

2A7V only has decent armour in two places, turret cheeks (just like the Abroomz), and the beak… but it trades the upper plate for it (which is a bigger area overall, effectively it’s a trade-off when you go from 2A6 to 2A7V).

Any stats to back it up? I’ll give you the top speed and reverse being slightly better. But you seriously seem to think TUSK II does anything lmao?

Oh noo, the stats!!

Tell, me, how would 2A7V out-accelerate the SEPv2 when the gear ratios are unchanged from the 2A6, but it gained 4+ tons of pretty much paper weight… just do it.

And you can see the weakpoints in the screenshots above.

You are just saying shit to make your Leopard 2s seem worse than they are in game.

Wooow, totally not like I told somebody else yesterday that 2A7V would be too much for the current state of the game, especially if fixed, no way maaan…

It’s actually YOU who is trying to make the Abroomz seem worse than it actually is, I’ve only repeated what has been said before in regards to the 2A7V’s implementation state, but you wouldn’t know that, would you?

Not like I was helping some of the guys with the SEPv2 LFP armour reports by finding that post-2006 DU was clearead for the hull, no waaay dude!!!

Again don’t tell me you are not saying that UFP add on armor of the 2A7V is of a similar usefullness as freaking TUSK II.

Oh I will, it actually makes the protection WORSE. The normal steel plate underneath works as it should, i.e shatter APFSDS, but the add-on plate allows APFSDS to penetrate, so in regards to that, it is actually much worse than TUSK II, it offers zero benefits, and adds a demerit.

[ARK_BOI]

hand made how hull armor should work.

[Jεcka]

Someone suggesting something that makes sense?

Couldn’t be the WT forum.

[WaretaGarasu]

@SPANISH_AVENGER

Also- aren’t German mains asking for “DM73 or at least DM63” for historical reasons?

Then I think American players are more than entitled to ask for at least M829A3, not just for balance, but also historical reasons.

DM73 and M829A3 shouldn’t been given both to Germany and USA, they don’t need that, especially where there nations stuck with DM43 without an apparent reason.

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@_Renzo

Because the SEPv2 is worse than the 2A7V in every aspect…

Wrong, the M1A2 SEP v1 and M1A2 SEP v2 have:

• Better Round ( L55 DM53 spall is horrible to say the least, M829A2 is way more consistent )
• Way better acceleration and speed
• Way better standing manouverability ( the neutral steering of the Abrams is considerabily better than the one you find on the other tanks )

Also, i don’t even get why you people act the M1A2 SEP v1 or M1A2 SEP v2 are a trashcan, of course they should be buffed, but thinking they won’t perform well is crazy, considering they are in a much better state than a lot of tanks, i can give you an example even for that:

• Leclercs missing spall liners, good round, ( They are still stuck to DM43 as of 2023 ), 5 seconds reload, and even the mobility ( It should be way more reactive than an M1A2, let alone the SEP’s, in every regard, acceleration, neutral steering ).
• Merkava’s missing their entire protection on the turret and missing some protection on the hull.
• Challengers 2’s which are full of weakspot without sense, weaker UFP than it should, gimped turret elevation
• Type 10’s with their unmodeled CVT and armor holes, as well as underforming turret rotation/elevation.
• Ariet- ok maybe not this tank.

Im not saying you guys shouldn’t get the buff to the armor, i was the one who made the report for it, but asking for M829A2, or DM73 for that regard, is completly egoistic, when the issue with every other tanks are fixed, maybe, but you want to fight powercreep with even more powercreep?

[Jεcka]

[WaretaGarasu]

The UFP of the Leclercs doesn’t really works like that, because its not 81 degrees, but beside that, yes, its how it should work in it was implemented correctly.

Spoiler

No, you will not get a ricochet on the UFP with it not even if you go the lowest you can with protection analysis with modern rounds, let alone in game where you almost ever bounce since people are at the same ground level most of the time.

[SPANISH_AVENGER]

@WaretaGarasu

DM73 and M829A3 shouldn’t been given both to Germany and USA, they don’t need that, especially where there nations stuck with DM43 without an apparent reason.

As always- in my opinion, the solution is not to nerf the top dogs (something SEPv2 isn’t anyway lol), but to buff the underdogs.

France has OFL F1? Easy, give it OFL F1B, SHARD or whatever.

L27A1 is underperforming, reported and acknowledged, so hopefully we will be getting a fix soon.

And… I can’t think of other nations with firepower issues now.

In regards to Germany vs U.S; M829A2 is marginally worse than DM53, while M829A3 would be marginally better than DM53.

Since all of the Abrams tanks have significantly worse than 2A7V, doesn’t it make sense to ask for M829A3 for, at least, just M1A2 SEPv2?

[Jεcka]

My opinion is to just give everyone that doesn’t have a national projectile that’s comparable, a DM53/63.

FYI, I recently discussed the L27A1s performance with Fireball, to put it bluntly, it’s unironically performing as it should (for LoS 68 degrees) lol.

[_Renzo]

@FurinaBestArchon

Sure buddy. Not like the entire upper plate of the Abrams is an auto ricochet - “70%” tho.

2A7V only has decent armour in two places, turret cheeks (just like the Abroomz), and the beak… but it trades the upper plate for it (which is a bigger area overall, effectively it’s a trade-off when you go from 2A6 to 2A7V).

The UFP is partially a good point, because it’s not the entire UFP. aim low, around where the composite stops and it will still go through, aim high and DM53 will get yeeted into the turret ring and take out the breach and at least 1-2 crew members.

But does this also count the weakspots you can abuse with HE that are permanently stuck on top of the SEPv2 turret? This was with DM11.

@WaretaGarasu

Better Round ( L55 DM53 spall is horrible to say the least, M829A2 is way more consistent )

both have similar weight and stats, I have personally never felt a difference between DM53 and M829A2.

@WaretaGarasu

• Way better acceleration and speed
• Way better standing manouverability ( the neutral steering of the Abrams is considerabily better than the one you find on the other tanks )

I agree with the standing manouvrability, turning feels better in the Abrams. I don’t really notice the difference in acceleration, but I only have up to the 2A5 spaded.

@WaretaGarasu

Also, i don’t even get why you people act the M1A2 SEP v1 or M1A2 SEP v2 are a trashcan, of course they should be buffed, but thinking they won’t perform well is crazy, considering they are in a much better state than a lot of tanks, i can give you an example even for that:

• Leclercs missing spall liners, good round, ( They are still stuck to DM43 as of 2023 ), 5 seconds reload, and even the mobility ( It should be way more reactive than an M1A2, let alone the SEP’s, in every regard, acceleration, neutral steering ).
• Merkava’s missing their entire protection on the turret and missing some protection on the hull.
• Challengers 2’s which are full of weakspot without sense, weaker UFP than it should, gimped turret elevation
• Type 10’s with their unmodeled CVT and armor holes, as well as underforming turret rotation/elevation.
• Ariet- ok maybe not this tank.

They are meh tanks, but that doesn’t mean it’s impossible to do well in them. It helps that everyone forgot where to aim against them.

And those other nations being worse off is why we need the BR decompression (and a boat load of fixes). An Ariete would maybe be decent if it wouldn’t be at the same BR as things like the 2A5+ and M1A2+ tanks.

@WaretaGarasu

Im not saying you guys shouldn’t get the buff to the armor, i was the one who made the report for it, but asking for M829A2, or DM73 for that regard, is completly egoistic, when the issue with every other tanks are fixed, maybe, but you want to fight powercreep with even more powercreep?

I do agree that M829A3 is a bit much with other nations. However I can’t stand people asking for even more QOL fixes to the 2A7V when it is already in the top most dominant vehicles in this update. It should have it’s errors fixed, but that should be it.

[ARK_BOI]

sometimes it should give up realism for some balance (like hell gaijin never done that before) ofc some tanks might not be easy to find information about it but at least it should get some artificial buff for balance’s sake that what thing should be not just because don’t have much info so leave the tanks to look like sht and unplayable.

[WaretaGarasu]

@SPANISH_AVENGER

Since all of the Abrams tanks have significantly worse than 2A7V, doesn’t it make sense to ask for M829A3 for, at least, just M1A2 SEPv2?

You see, i would agree with you if it was M1A2 SEP v2 against Leopard 2A7V / STRV122’s, but unfortunately its not like that, if you give a better round to SEPs you are going to damage other tanks as well, since not everyone play those two tanks.

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@SPANISH_AVENGER

OFL F1B

Its still DM43, Leclerc does use SHARD as of right now, which would be an option, but for now its slightly better than everything, so i can see why the DEVs don’t want to give it to Leclercs, but im not a dev, they are the ones that needs to find a solution for this.

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@FurinaBestArchon

DM53/63.

Spoiler

Considering the terrible spalling of L55 for some reasons, honestly i wouldn’t even want it so much. People often forget about that but M95 or M829A2 are way more consistent than DM53 that is not even funny.

[Matthgame231]

bro said less weakpoints, dont lie bro, entire abrams front is a weakpoint

[WaretaGarasu]

@_Renzo

They are meh tanks, but that doesn’t mean it’s impossible to do well in them.

So does the M1A2 v1 and v2, excluding they are not meh tanks.

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@_Renzo

But does this also count the weakspots you can abuse with HE that are permanently stuck on top of the SEPv2 turret? This was with DM11.

DM11 is HE-TF, so this only really applies with 3OF26 since time fuse implementation is terrible right now.

[SPANISH_AVENGER]

@WaretaGarasu

Leclerc does use SHARD as of right now, which would be an option, but for now its slightly better than everything, so i can see why the DEVs don’t want to give it to Leclercs, but im not a dev, they are the ones that needs to find a solution for this.

Oh, interesting to know!

Then SHARD should definitely come for S.XXI and AZUR, at very least.

Yes, it may perform even better than DM53… but considering that Leclerc has glass armor, I don’t think it would be a bad thing- it would just turn it into a proper glass canon (hopefully with its 5 second reload too).

See, I just want every nation to shine on its full glory, hahah. I don’t like the thought of nations being overshadowed for being kept artificially nerfed “for balance”.

Because to be honest, most balance issues aren’t caused by certain vehicles being too strong; but caused by certain vehicles being too nerfed.

[_Renzo]

@WaretaGarasu

So does the M1A2 v1 and v2, excluding they are not meh tanks.

I already have pretty decent stats in both, they are my favourite tanks in game, and I still consider them meh. It’s just that a lot of the MBTs below them are even worse than meh.

@WaretaGarasu

DM11 is HE-TF, so this only really applies with 3OF26 since time fuse implementation is terrible right now.

You can still use them as normal HE rounds though I use proxy HE rounds like that often enough.

[미도리]

there is not ricochet zone

[WaretaGarasu]

@_Renzo

I already have pretty decent stats in both, they are my favourite tanks, and I still consider them meh.

They are versatile, have a good round and have built around a good lineup, of course the lineup doesn’t count towards considering if a tank is bad or good, but they for sure are not meh.

[Jεcka]

@_Renzo

The UFP is partially a good point, because it’s not the entire UFP. aim low, around where the composite stops and it will still go through, ai

Works the same for the beak? I’ve had M829A2 penetrate through it just a match ago and kill my loader. An AFV’s protection is relative, it will never be an equeal value each and every time…

My point is that the entire “ooga booga protection” argument is pointless until 2A7V is actually fixed, then we can argue about it,

But does this also count the weakspots you can abuse with HE that are permanently stuck on top of the SEPv2 turret? This was with DM11.

No, because nobody that I know uses DM11, or actually any HE round unless they are playing Russia. You can do the same to any Leopard 2 with HE anyways, like, any tank can be done in by an HE round, what’s the point here… and if you’re at close enough range to use DM11 without lasing a target… why are you even using it?

It should have it’s errors fixed, but that should be it.

Depending on what you consider an error, 2A7V using DM53 would be one… seeing as it’s been withdrawn from service, or was converted to 53A1 with SCBD.

[_Renzo]

@FurinaBestArchon

Depending on what you consider an error, 2A7V using DM53 would be one… seeing as it’s been withdrawn from service, or was converted to 53A1 with SCBD.

I’m not a Leopard main so I consider the main errors to be the acceleration and armor, bug fixes also count as errors imo.

Ammo is used to balance things so it’s not an error. and the argument of it being withdrawn from service is also not really a thing, seeing as the SEPv2 from 2008ish also uses ammo from 1994 (which is fine imo).

@WaretaGarasu

They are versatile, have a good round and have built around a good lineup, of course the lineup doesn’t count towards considering if a tank is bad or good, but they for sure are not meh.

Yes they are versatile. They are decent in most things (except really armor imo, they are so easy to pen and kill for me), just not really outstanding in anything. It’s honestly why I like them (besides their look).

But that doesn’t mean I wouldn’t perform much better in the same situations if I had been in a 2A7V or any of the 122s.